Way to Russia Community and Forum

Thomas1989 · Frequent Guest Joined: 14 Nov 2010 Posts: 10

Hello all, I'm Tom, 21 years old from Manchester, England and am concerned about the Visa application to Russia. I only have the intention of travelling.

Big apologies in advance in case this is in the wrong category or has been asked a million times before.

Next year (July 2011) I'm travelling to see Chernobyl in Kiev, from there I hope to carry on to Russia to see the big cities such as Moscow, Volgograd, and St. Petersburg. Me and my friend were recently looking at Visa types for Russia. The first option was the 30 day tourist visa. Then we noticed that there are alternatives like a 3 month business visa. I've heard that this can be used for non-business purposes, so my first question would be, is this true? I wanted to spend at least a few weeks in each city, so something a little longer than 30 days would be a lot better. Secondly, my biggest concern is that I will be refused and why. I hope to take £10,000 with me, so supporting myself won't be a problem. I'm just extremely worried that they will find reasons to refuse me entry that I haven't considered. On what grounds do they typically refuse a Visa application to Russia? Lastly, this is slightly off topic, but I've heard UK citizens don't need a visa to visit the Ukraine a long as they don't overstay a 90 day limit, is that true?

I would really appreciate any feedback, I've dreamed of visting the East since I was about 15, I'd like to know what I'm in store for with this application. Cheers!

romdur · Lounge Lizard Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Posts: 197

As commonsense would suggest, business visas are not supposed to be used for tourism. In practice, foreigners in Russia often use business visas for other purposes. Foreigners entering Russia must fill out a migration card (a slip of white paper presented to Passport Control when entering the Russian Federation). The card includes (on both halves, most of the stuff appears twice) a place to select (by underlining) the purpose of the foreigner's visit to Russia.

Note well that the purpose underlined on the migration card MUST match the visa type! A discrepancy would set off the metaphorical alarm bells.

One of your questions is really two questions, because you asked about refusal of entry, AND refusal of a visa application. These are two separate matters! Yes, it is possible to have a valid visa but still be turned back at Passport Control (for example, see the Migration Card caution above).

It's impossible to give an ironclad guarantee -- much can be at the whim of individual officials. But that being said...

As far as I know, a UK citizen who has gotten an acceptable invitation (you'll need to get one from a travel company, such as those represented by this website), and properly filled out the application, is quite unlikely to have any problems.

In the unlikely event that any official questions you, if you give simple and straightforward answers consistent with the documents you have submitted, you should do fine.

Two points about dates: 1) DON'T plan to stay right up to the visa expiration date. Leave a few days margin, so you can be sure to leave before the visa expires even if there are some unexpected difficulties. 2) On the Migration Card, where you fill in your exit date, write the latest date on which you expect to leave Russia. I don't know what happens if you leave after the Migration Card date (maybe nothing, and probably not a very big deal anyway), but it costs nothing to leave yourself some room.

Thomas1989 · Frequent Guest Joined: 14 Nov 2010 Posts: 10

Thank you very much for your reply, especially the part about Passport Control, we had no idea about that!

As a final long shot, this may a little much to ask. However, as you guys are the ones with the knowledge and experience, taking into consideration the 3 cities we want to see (St. Petersburg, Volgograd and Moscow), which Visa do you think I should apply for? Is it recommended for me to apply for a Business Visa considering my intentions (and after what you said, common sense after all!). If so, any advice on what I should put in the application regarding those intentions. Apologies for the amount of questions, we are noobies at this, and would like to start off with as few mistakes as possible.

Thanks again

romdur · Lounge Lizard Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Posts: 197

It's really a question of timing. If you can satisfactorily plan your visit to Russia to be no more than about 3 and 1/2 weeks, then a tourist visa (up to 30 days) is fine for you. For a first trip to Russia, you might find that spending an average of a week in each city is satisfactory -- though for me, however long I visit Peterburg, I always feel a pang about leaving.

A 90 day business visa is the practical way to stay longer than 30 days. From your point of view, the main difference is that the visa will cost you more, and perhaps take rather longer to get.

On the visa application, you answer almost exactly the same questions, for both types of visa. The application forms I have seen have no questions about the purpose of your travel, other than the selection of visa type (e.g., Tourist or Business)

Thomas1989 · Frequent Guest Joined: 14 Nov 2010 Posts: 10

Your help is greatly appreciated, me and my friends thank you!

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 741 Location: Moscow

I believe one may only bring into Russia up to the equivalent of $10,000 cash without declaring the money at customs.

Outside of the illegality of importing such a quantity of cash, there is the smartness factor. The area you speak of Chernobyl/Ukrania/Belarus, is a very poor area. To be a foreigner in this area carrying such a huge quantity of cash is beyond risky: it's outlandishly foolhardy.

You can be sure that just for starters, you will be picked out as a foreigner from 10 miles away everywhere you go. There is a widespread sentiment that all foreigners are rich (which indeed any foreigner is in comparison to the local populace). You take $10,000 cash into this kind of countryside, you're wearing a bulls-eye on your back. The very idea is insane.

The average per capita income in Ukrania is $2,800, the average per capita income for Belarus is $5,540. You are proposing to carry on your person FOUR TIMES as much money as a Ukranian makes every year?!

Wandering around this part of the world with that kind of cash Thomas, is a very very bad idea. Please dump this exceedingly unwise plan.

Thomas1989 · Frequent Guest Joined: 14 Nov 2010 Posts: 10

We don't plan on carrying it cash in hand. I'll be using travellers cheques and my credit card as often as possible, I don't plan on having more than £30-40 with me at all times.

Cheers!

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 741 Location: Moscow

Travelers cheques? Those will be nearly impossible to cash. Even in Moscow there is only one bank which will take them.

Credit cards? Where you are going few business are set up for electronic transactions. And it is very risky territory for western credit cards due to the thriving credit card fraud industry, especially in Ukrania.

I've seen plenty of small to medium size towns in Russia where you'd be hard pressed to find a single business which had the ability to process credit cards.

It's a problem.

Thomas1989 · Frequent Guest Joined: 14 Nov 2010 Posts: 10

What alternatives do you suggest?

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 741 Location: Moscow

What most westerners do not comprehend about traveling to former soviet countries is how undeveloped the financial system is. Something very hard to grasp if you've spent a lifetime in a developed financial world.

Business on a daily scale in Ukrania/Belarus/Russia is a cash economy. But this presents the problem of having a bunch of cash on your person which can be unsafe. What to do?

Here's how we handled 5 years in Russia:
ATM cash debit card.

Every week I got a week's worth of cash from cash machine. Paid for everything in cash, everything. I think I only used a credit card twice in 5 years in Moscow. And Moscow is much easier than more outback places.

If we went out of town to a small place where there was a low probability of finding a debit machine we carried extra cash between the two of us. Split the money in boots, pockets, socks. Small bills in front pants pockets for paying for meals and do dads. Bigger bills in socks and boots.

NEVER keep a wallet or cash (or passport) in back pants pockets. Never. Never.

Thomas1989 · Frequent Guest Joined: 14 Nov 2010 Posts: 10

Again, I thank you for your kindness and helpful advice, we will certainly make sure to follow of this and I have saved your posts to notepad. I've travelled to Poland before, but I was only 14 at the time and with adults, so I wouldn't be aware of any difficulty with cash until now. I have a feeling next year will be a real eye opener, am I right?

I'll be sure to check here daily as yourself and other members here have proven to be really helpful!

Thanks

romdur · Lounge Lizard Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Posts: 197

I very much hesitate to contradict expat -- whose knowledge of Russia so vastly exceeds my own -- but I think it worthwhile to offer a different perspective.

While financial conditions in the former Soviet Union are very different from those in the west, they are also evolving rapidly from year to year.

ATMs: It is true that in cities, ATMs are very practical to use. There are some practical limitations:

1. Depending on your home bank, use of an ATM may entail fees that have the same effect as a substantial commission. For my bank -- one of the largest in the US -- this comes close to 5%, when I take as many rubles as the ATM will allow at one time (it is worse for smaller amounts).

2. Sometimes, even if you have done everything right, you can have problems using a foreign ATM, that may be tricky to resolve.

3. In every country, there are high-tech devices thieves attach to ATMs that enable them to break into your bank account. The world-wide use of these "skimmers" has increased drastically in recent months. You can protect yourself by covering up the keypad when you enter your PIN -- but some skimmers work even if you cover up. If you get skimmed, you can lose a subsantial amount from your account. In the US, the bank will generally replace the stolen money, though maybe after a long delay. My understanding is that in the UK, the customer is responsible for the loss ...

4. Please, DON'T bring an ATM/debit card. These have the problem that if the card is stolen, it can be used to rob you without knowledge of your PIN code. I specifically asked my bank for an ATM-only card (non-debit), that is useless without the PIN.

Because of these limitations, I use the ATM as "Plan B".

CASH: More than 10 times I've come to Russia with a bundle of cash (enough to pay all lodging etc.) Generally, I've covered about 85% of my in-country expenses using cash I carried with me. Of course, I am careful and sensible about how I handle it! And I make sure to have the resources in place to take care of myself (including my ATM-only card), should the cash be lost.

TRAVELERS CHECKS: I don't use them, so I can't speak from experience. However, I just checked the American Express site, which listed 7 banks in Moscow, 4 in Volgograd and 9 in Peterburg that American Express says will exchange their travelers checks.

CREDIT CARDS: As expat says, credit cards aren't used in Russia as they are in the west. However, their use (and credit in general) are expanding in the region. A few times I have purchased airline tickets online while in Russia using my credit card, and I once paid a Moscow apartment by card. As with ATMs, my bank charges significant fees for foreign transactions, and in the case of the apartment, the apartment agency added a percentage commission as well for using a credit card. Oh, I also paid for rooms in Moscow hotel using my card. So it can be practical for a traveler to use a credit card, even though their acceptance is limited.

SUGGESTION: For your trip, Thomas, I recommend that you consider a mix. Bring plenty of cash with you (in Moscow and Peterburg it isn't hard to find currency exchanges with good rates, though it pays to prepare), and perhaps the lion's share in travelers checks. If you lose some cash, or things are more expensive than you expected, your non-debit ATM card will give you a convenient way to tap into your home account.

When obtaining the local currency, there will always be some loss along the way, partly by exchange rate (which can vary a lot depending whom you deal with) and partly by fees and commissions. You can make some balance between the percentage points of cost, and what is most secure and convenient.

nikir · Frequent Guest Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Posts: 56

The first myth to get out of the way is that the entire population of the RF will be lined up at the airport to fleece YOU. Not so. Exercise precautions as you would in any place that you are not familiar with and the risk of anything untoward happening is about the same as at home.

As for money 10,000 quid is a lot, About 16,000 in USD or half a million Rubles. An excessive amount to stow in your undies and socks for sure.

Use plastic, travellers cheques are so last century that you will have real trouble cashing them in Moscow let alone anywhere else. Currency exchange operators are sharks and should be avoided at all costs.

I have 2 savings accounts and 2 credit cards with different banks. One of my savings accounts has $AU500 in it. This is the one I use to withdraw from ATMs, whip the lot out once a week and then top it from the other account via internet banking. If there is any trouble (never has been for me) the most the "mafia" can get their hands on is 500. You then contact your bank and get it sorted. Again take precautions like using ATMs inside banks and not in clubs or metro stations. All ATMs I've seen overseas have an English language interface so I don't see how they could be tricky to use. I have never had any tricks to contend with and have been going to Russia since 1996.

I use credit cards where I can (because I like frequent flyer points that go with them) and again have never had a problem. In the past couple of years these cards have become more widely accepted and are perfectly safe to use in supermarkets, hotels etc. Last year I spent a couple of months in the far east of Russia and the Visa and Mastercard logos were everywhere. The only drawback was that the terminals were not working sometimes. Again if you do have a problem contact your bank immediately just as you would at home.

To finish use plastic, do not carry a lot of cash, do not rely on travelers cheques and avoid currency exchanges. Have a good time.

nikir · Frequent Guest Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Posts: 56

@ Romdur

What is an ATM only card and how is it different to an ATM debit card. Here what we call ATM debit cards can only be used to access a savings account either to buy goods or withdraw cash and a pin is always used to authorise the transaction.

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 741 Location: Moscow

An ATM debit card withdraws cash directly from your bank account, savings and/or checking. Requires a pin to access YOUR money, correct.

When you are traveling in poor areas, your perceived wealth will be an attractive target. Extreme caution is advised.

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If you have a question or want to help someone, please, go to Way to Russia Forum on our Facebook page. We also invite you to join our Facebook community, where you can meet other travelers and read interesting news on topics ranging from visa regulations to culture and music.

We are currently moving the old forum to Facebook, so what you see below functions as an archive. If you have a question, please, post it on Way to Russia Facebook Discussions Page

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If you have a question or want to help someone, please, go to
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We also invite you to join our Facebook community, where you can meet other travelers and read interesting news on topics ranging from visa regulations to culture and music.

We are currently moving the old forum to Facebook, so what you see below functions as an archive.

If you have a question, please, post it on
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