Way to Russia Community and Forum

brandalpayne11 · Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: what to believe?

I am very confused. some people say that people in russia are very cold & indifferent, while others say they are very warm & receptive. Is it me ordo people from all nationalities react by vibe. Meaning that if u are friendly & look for the good in people then you will recieve the same, with some exceptions of course. likewise if u have a chip on your shoulder & are apprehensive about meeting people the people no matter where they are from are going to react the same.

please give me some feedback!

mountaingirl · Frequent Guest Joined: 06 Sep 2004 Posts: 57

Generally, I think you are right....If you go over there looking for trouble, you are going to find it. If you are going to visit another country wanting to see if there are prejudices and scammers, you'll find 'em.
If you are visiting another country wanting to meet new people, enjoy the diversity of another culture and make some friends, it's gonna happen! Are we seeing a trend here????

Buttheads like Winston write stupid things like his essays and then sit back and laugh at us when we go into a tizzy and have multiple pages bashing him and dicussing the controversy that doesn't even exisist!! He is creating the world we are hearing about in his articles.

Does that mean none of that goes on in Russia? No! But does it go on everwhere else on this planet? Yes!! So you see, you could say, "Russia is full of liars,scammers,jerks,ripoffs and is a big sest pool of greedy people." But don't go to New York, London, Dublin, or any other big city and tell me you can't find the same thing.

uday · WayToRussified Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 323

You will find both extremes in russia, and rarely anyone down the middle. The majority you will meet in your travels will be a rude indifferent bunch of pricks, specially in the ticket offices, but the ones that are nice will be the nicest and most hospitable bunch you'll meet. Take the good with the bad.

markhagelin · Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:15 am Post subject:

I don't believe that it is fair to try to categorize all Russians as either good or as bad.

Some are good. Some are bad.

I think this happens in all countries.

I believe that some of the political unrest can make some people uneasy or put them in a rough situation economically, but this happens all over the world and should not be used as a general description of Russia.

People are people.

If you treat them with respect and kindness then most of the time they will return it.

Part of the respect for a foreign country is to learn their language, that may be part of Winston's problem.

I feel that not at least trying to learn the language is a sign of disrepect.

[I am not Russian, but an Ameican, and if and/or when I go over to Russia, I will make sure to learn the language before I go.]

If you treat them rude or with arrogance then you can have some problems.

Some people are just xenophobic [sp?] and don't want to have to deal with anyone from a foreign country at all.

I think there is too much propaganda and too many people wanting to foster an environment of hate.

It has to stop somewhere.

Mark H

tuller · Talk Show Host Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 234

I agree with mountaingirl on her post.
I've traveled to a lot of different countries and I've never had any problems, and have always came home enriched by their culture and with new and wonderful friends.
If you're a smart a**redneck bubba looking for trouble, then you will find trouble anywhere in the world.. Even the good people will "bust your butt" if you present yourself in unmannerly way...and I'm sure you would call that as a bad Russian or whomever in whatever country.
When I'm in Russia I always present myself as a nice and mannerly person interested in them, their country, and especially their culture.
I tell my fiances's family and friends that when I bring her and her two daughters to America to live, that all I'm doing is changing the address of their home, giving them all of my care, love and support. I would do nothing to change their beautiful culture....all I want to do is give them a better life with much love and support.
You would be surprised at how well I'm loved and treated by their family and friends.
Now, if I went over there with an "attitude", then I'm for certain I would encounter many not so good problems and could possibly experience the bad side of the people.
I think all of us have a "bad side" to us, but for some of us, it takes an "attiude" of some sorts for us to show it.

Just my worthless $.2 cents worth

AliceFromMoscow · WayToRussified Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 411

as you sow so shall you reap Smile

Don't be scared to communicate with people, and everything will be ok.
By the way, you know what russians discuss on forums of learn-english-websites? They ask where they can meet foreigners and try to make friends with them, without being suspiciously looked at, and politely refused Rolling Eyes

tuller · Talk Show Host Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 234

Try to be nice to everyone, be they a friend or foe Smile

And two things to remember if you're one of the guys going to Russia for your true love....DO NOT EVER FORGET HER BIRTHDAY!...Whew, I'm still trying to beg out of that one from two years ago..lol
.And...try not to embarrass a Russian...and that should go for anyone you come in contact with.
BE NICE !...be a winner...not a loser Smile

Atomcat · Lounge Lizard Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 187

markhagelin · Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:40 pm Post subject:

Tuller
Your "worthless $.2 cents worth" are priceless for those who can learn from them.
I didn't know, but I suspected that birthdays are important and to forget HER birthday would be a major faux pas.
Many American's probably don't know about Woman's Day, March 8, either.

In response to "AliceFromMoscow"
You said "By the way, you know what russians discuss on forums of learn-english-websites? They ask where they can meet foreigners and try to make friends with them, without being suspiciously looked at, and politely refused"

I had signed up at Yahoo Personals to try to meet/talk with someone who lived within 100 miles of me, here in Maine, USA
I did not expect to get a very polite e-mail from a nice woman in Perm, Russia
I responded to the very honest and gentle way she presented herself.
I now look forward to her e-mails when she can get to the Internet Cafe.
With the 10 hour time difference we are still trying to talk with each other over the phone.

I can't speak for other foreign men, but as an American man, I would offer these suggestions for a Russian woman looking to get together with an American man:

1) Be honest. Men truly prefer honesty. Let him know what your intentions are. He will either accept them or reject them.

2) If you have access to the Internet, and can go to Yahoo Personals or some other Internet personals. then take some risks.

E-mail someone whose profile looks nice and you think you could feel comfortable with.

Your average American male won't be rich, but he will be kind and loving. It may take awhile to show it. Remember, many have been hurt by American women who don't necessarily have some of the traditional Russian values.

Chances are, if he is using the Internet to find someone, he doesn't drink very much and is not using the bar scene to find someone special. He is more than likely a social drinker who may be a bit lonely.

A nice e-mail could brighten up his day. And could lead to more.

He could be relatively shy or sensitive as well. These qualities don't necessarily make him weak. Some men don't show their emotions as well.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Some men on the Internet will respond, some men won't respond.

3) Gradually gain his trust. Expect him to be wary of foreign contact because of some of the scam artists out there.

Give him a means to politely verify information so that he knows your intentions are real. Sometimes the American male ego will get in the way. He would like to believe he is the one "chasing" after the woman, not her "chasing" after him.

4) Get a feel for his sincerity. You will be able to tell almost immediately how sincere the man is. Not seeing you in person, but by e-mail contact, he should be more honest. He doesn't really have much to hide or to lose.

There is no real way for him to be embarassed or to have his ego or masculinity challenged. He doesn't have any image to live up to in front of his family or friends.

He has one on one individual contact and can express his true feelings.

Chances are if it will not end up in a long term relationship, you will know it before getting too close.

You need to be friends before anything else.

5) Keep money out of the contact situation and relationship as much as possible.

Reach a "neutral ground" .He will probably want to meet you at least half-way regarding the cost. For example, she pays for the Internet Cafe for e-mails and internet access, he pays by making the long-distant international calls to her.

6) Encourage him to learn Russian culture and etiquette[sp?] to avoid possisble mis-understandings. If he is interested enough he will learn the language too. Be patient with him because he will probably make mistakes without realizing it. If possible, polititely correct his mistakes directly or indirectly without being offensive or making him defensive.

7) Expect some of the men to have pre-conceived notions about Russian culture and women. Most of these types of men won't e-mail back, but some will. Unfortunately some of the American prejudices towards Russians in general still exist.

Cool

Most American men still want to get married and have a family while many American women have put having a family on hold to have a career. This can cause an inadvertent tension between the sexes as the males feel slighted. American males are used to [perhaps a better word is tolerate] the attitudes of American women.

I would say there are 2 primary reasons why American men drink: 1) to have a good time, and 2) to find someone to be with, either as a speical relationship or a "fling" [in you can understnad what I mean].

9) Good relationships take time.

But expect him to fall in love with you before you fall in love with him.
Most men know what they want. And when they see it, they will go after it.

If he sees that the Russian woman pushes him away too hard, he will be hurt and pull away. He may not necessarily express himself, but if he has gotten to the point where, when he says "I love you" ,he does mean it.

These are just some points which may be helpful for the Russian women. I hope no offense is taken. This is based on my own experience and observations of male/female interactions.

Regarding Winston:
Doesn't Winston mention that Vadim had a friend with the Georgian mafia? I would have chosen my friends more carefully. And would have looked at their ties.
It seems to me that Winston's experences are "colored" at best, meaning that due to the type of people he was hanging out with, they are not necessarily reflective of the Russian people.
He may have put himself into those situations, by his conduct or lack of knowledge. Would they have still happened if he spoke Russian? It seems to me he made himself vulnerable, I don't know for sure.
But drinking and/or wanting a prostitute is a surefire way to have trouble find you.
Flashing money or material things like the camcorder, etc, i don't think helped matters.

These are just my feelings. about Winston's situations.

---

I hope that I don't come across as being a "know-it-all" or something like that. I am just sharing my feelings and opinions with a little bit of knowledge built up from experience.

I have to learn as well.

Mark Hagelin
Maine. USA

Atomcat · Lounge Lizard Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 187

markhagelin · Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:15 am Post subject:

Atomcat

My feeling is this: to not let my expectations get too high where I will let down or hurt.

The idea is to not let my expectations get out of control.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Life is full of risks.

That does not mean one throws caution to the wind. It means that try to live life to its fullest by not being afraid of acting.

To go into a foreign country, not knowing the language, customs or etiquette, would be in my eyes sheer stupidity.

Life is a series of learning processes.

I want to know everything I can know before going to Russia. If this meeting does not work, maybe I will meet someone else.

The key to me, is to take the risk in a responsible manner. Knowing the language, culture etc, and knowing what areas not to visit, etc.

The motto of my high school was "Knowledge is power"

While it is true that we cannot predict all of the bad things which may befall us, we can limit their possibility by not being in the "wrong place at the wrong time" and acting in a prudent manner.

Ignorance is bliss, and some of us [Winston?] are more blissfull than others.

I will not go until I feel I am properly prepared. And then, I will still probably be nervous and hopefully won't be another arrogant American tourist.

Mark H
Maine USA

AliceFromMoscow · WayToRussified Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 411

Thanks for your advice, but i am not really looking for anyone Wink

Besides, i'd like to build my career first, and then create a family...
By that post i actually meant guys and girls who want to communicate for real, not through internet, but guys say that foreigners beware of them, when they try to begin a conversation, probably thinking that they want to do something bad to them?
By the way, your point about saying "i love you" is incorrect(in my opinion). I will NOT believe anyone saying he loves me, if he has never seen me in real life, thats absurd, he loves not me, but the image he created in his head which is wrong anyway. So i wouldn't advise anyone to fall for images of people you create in your mind, because the real person is different.

Atomcat · Lounge Lizard Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 187

tuller · Talk Show Host Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 234

Alice is correct...I'll write more about this later tonight...and guys, if you haven't ben there and done that, and you're thinking about seeking a Russian Bride, then maybe you need to read my reply to Alice....

Tuller

Happily engaged to a Russian Lady...and it "ain't" as easy as you may think....

markhagelin · Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:44 am Post subject:

Alice

I think for any woman to put career ahead of family is a huge mistake.

A mistake which America has been experiencing for 50 years, since after World War II.

I believe that a focus on career over family has been what has undermined America, too much greed and too much individualism.

I feel they have both been taken to the extreme.

America used to be a nation focused on family and God, both of which are disappearing from American culture.

Without God there can be little or NO morality. And family is the glue which holds societies together.

Naked we were born into this world, and naked we shall return. [Not that they bury people without clothes, naked meaning without material things].

Children are our legacy.

Not money. Not houses. Not churches. Not property.

American men, not able to find what they want from American women, are looking elsewhere, Russia, Europe, Asia, not to corrupt them but for love and children.

I did not actively seek anyone outside the US but I have been to websites since then to learn about fiancee visas [K-1] and the Petition for Alien Fianc?e [Form I-129F]

I disagree. When you say:

"By the way, your point about saying "i love you" is incorrect(in my opinion). I will NOT believe anyone saying he loves me, if he has never seen me in real life, thats absurd, he loves not me, but the image he created in his head which is wrong anyway. So i wouldn't advise anyone to fall for images of people you create in your mind, because the real person is different."

Love is based on what is on the inside, not the outside.

Poetry can be a good measure of what is in a person's heart. Whether through an e-mail [electronic mail] or normal mail, one can get a good insight into the person.

When I write back and forth I have nothing to hide. I can open up without feeling ashamed or embarassed.

A picture can give one a good enough idea whether or not I would be physically attracted to a particular woman or not.

She's in Russia, I'm in America.

Nothing says we will ever meet in person. To mean this means there can be totally honesty.

We can open up through our correspondence.

I am still a romantic. So is she.

I focus on what comes from the heart and soul, not on the outside.

She is very beautiful. And I often comment on her inner and outer beauty. I can see/sense through her words who she is.

Each relationship is different. Everyone has different experiences. One cannot hide their soul.

I have not been asked for money, nor have have offered any.

I have not lost anything.

I have spent time writing back and forth with a beautiful woman.

I understand the words of caution, I am not one who throws caution to the wind.

I was married for 5 years to a woman who was very selfish. Her whole personality changed once we got married.

-----

In this age we have the luxury of being able to fall in love, but that was not always the case.

Marriages used to be arranged by social status, not because someone loved someone else.

----

Blame idiots like Winston for

"By that post i actually meant guys and girls who want to communicate for real, not through internet, but guys say that foreigners beware of them, when they try to begin a conversation, probably thinking that they want to do something bad to them?"

Unfortunately how people like him act can give people a bad impression and can refelect negatively on the country they come from.

I had not even considered a Russian bride unti l received an e-mail from a very nice Russian woman. Now I am open-minded about it. If things don't work with her and I, I don't know if I would be active seeking a Russian bride. It's hard to say.

I didn't start correspondence with her because of her nationality, but because of her as a person.

I am not stopping the correspondence just because she is Russian.

I came here to learn so, I willing to listen to just about everybody [with only 1 known exception]

Mark H
Maine, USA[/quote]

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