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brandalpayne11
Talk Show Host
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 245
Location: NC, US
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 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:26 pm Post subject: Why Stalin? |
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Uday, why the pic of Stalin 
Why not Ayn Rand 
LOL |
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renwan
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe because Stalin was the only one that continued Lenin's work,saved the USSR from an Invasion, cathed traitors and kepped Socialism working?
Isnt that enough?
OOC: i c ur american,please dont answer this with the typical bvrainwahsed propaganda of: STALIN KILLED 40 MIL,because its physically impossible.
USSR had 90 mil pre-WWII,20 Mil died in the Great War,that leaves them with 70 Mil,and if Stalin killed 40 mil as US says USSR would had have only 30 Mil,and its impossible and makes no sense that from 30 Mil they ended with 290 Mil in 1992. |
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brandalpayne11
Talk Show Host
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 245
Location: NC, US
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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1st I consider myself an intellictual, second as an American
If u want to love the man, u have no beef with me. its a free country..........oops unlike when Stalin was in power.
Ayn Rand was a famous Russian phylosopher, I consider her to be one of the most influential voice in the merits of capitolism.
let me explain how this works
There is always going to be rich people and there is always going to be poor people. Socialism is for the person who does not have the intestinal fortitude to take care of his or her family so they look for the government to do it for them. Socialism looks real good to the lazy person because it takes away RESPONSIBILITY. 
Here is an analogy for you.
You put 100 people on an island, give them all the same amount of cocconuts. Within 1 month a minority of people will have the majority of the cocconuts...........WHY..........im glad you asked. Survival of the fittest. Russia right now is on the verge of a great economical time.........why......... wow u ask a lot of questions, but I don't mind. CAPITOLISM |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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What renwan said...
You've bought into the american propaganda. I find it amusing that Churchill and the Roosevelt at the time thought he was a great man, but now americans consider him evil. It's funny the bedfellows you make for short term gain always end up your arch enemies over time.
Anyway, don't be surprised to see the empire back in Russia again. People aren't so happy with democracy in Russia, and even the President said it wasn't working. Elections of the governors have been abolished, landmark Ukranian elections coming up could decide whether Ukraine joins Russia again, and the Georgian problem all are signs of things to change. |
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brandalpayne11
Talk Show Host
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 245
Location: NC, US
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I don't necessarily think that the man is EVIL, I just think that 1 idea is better than the other . I can respect anyones way of thinking, if and only if he can articulate his argument, verses repeating what he or she heard.
In my own experience, I was a waiter @ a restaurant 3 years ago, now I sell houses. I did not need the Government to help me out I just simply got up off my ass & worked.
Most importantly I was just wondering why such a well traveled & somewhat well versed person has Stalin representing him. |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'm not going to get into my ideology vs your ideology... topic for another debate.
Stalin as a person was a man who came from nothing, destitute poverty, and overcame all odds to become arguably the most powerful man on earth. He industrialized the nation, was responsible for bringing the revolution in China/North Korea, winning the second war, and most of all, respecting the working class. You think the people had it bad during Stalin's reign? It was much worse before, where the poor were opressed with no opportunity for anything else. Stalin brought forward free healthcare and education at all levels for everyone, the people ate and everyone had employment. All this was done under a short period of time, thanks to Stalin's efficientness and micromanagement of Russian economy/society. That's me 2 cents. I like Stalin, I am a socialist, nothing will change that. |
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brandalpayne11
Talk Show Host
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 245
Location: NC, US
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| fair enough |
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spartacus
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:21 am Post subject: |
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So it is only US propoganda that Stalin was evil?
Tell that to any Ukrainian, or Tartar. Tell that to people near Magadan or any other gulag site. Tell it to the people who lived near Chernobyl(sp). Tell it to the thousands who died trying to flee the Iron Curtain. Tell it to the people of the former Soviet client-states.
Churchill and FDR did not think he was great, they just had to deal with the murdering scum. Stalin was willing to deal with Hitler to divvy up Europe, but when Hitler turned on Stalin too, we saw that by arming and helping the Russians we could improve our own odds against Hitler.
Communism is a failure, stalin killed and enslaved millions to keep the enevitable failure as far away as possible, but the killing and the gulags themeselves were themselves proof of the failure of Stalins and Lennin's ideas.
Why do you think the terrorists of the world all use Soviet (now russian) arms? Because the system that Stalin created was willing to fund any and all evil if only it would act against their greatest threat, US-European Unity and power.
And the "useful idiots" of the world still support those goals.
And why didn't you want to hear from Americans? Oh yeah, like most leftists, you are so certain of your own intelligence that you think anyone who dissagrees with you cannot do so factually. That is called arrogance on your part. It is also called elitism. And while some moan over why Europeans don't like the US, I hope some of you can see why so many in the US find Euro-Trash elitist arrogance actually both funny and annoying. Like the little barking rat-dog who thinks he is tough because the Doberman tolorates him.
I think that westerners who say things like "Stalin wasn't so bad" or "socialism is great" are just leftovers of the worlds cowards who knew they didnt have the balls to stand up to the USSR, so they started sucking up to them in the hope that they would be more gentle if you submit.
And when they see that the US does in fact have the balls, they feel envious and resentful. They realize that in terms of morality and testosterone, they are inferior to us and in defence of their pitiful egos they strike out at everything we do, inventing convaluted explanations for their own positions, when in fact there is only one explanation: envy. |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| spartacus, you are an american, so forgive me if I believe not a word of what you say, as your gov'ts (past & present) and people have been the most naive and untrustworthy in history. |
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Atomcat
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject: Okay |
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Uday name your sources, name some links, name your books.
Seriously where are your sources? Where do you get your information?
Really? I will gladly read it with an open mind. |
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spartacus
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Typical argument of the left. They lack the intelligence tol analyze, and the integrety to look up opposing facts. So instead they attack the messenger. But then again, it worked for Stalin. |
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Atomcat
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:37 pm Post subject: wait |
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| Quote: | | Typical argument of the left. They lack the intelligence tol analyze, and the integrety to look up opposing facts. So instead they attack the messenger. But then again, it worked for Stalin. |
It is obvious that Uday read something that influence his opinion. I am curious what he read. Sparticus is your message, you are doing exactly what you wrote. Give Uday a chance to respond. |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: Look back to history |
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The reason the Russians are in the predicament they're in is because of the Soviets (and the people, in general). If you want to debate there's some sort of psyche the Russians have which has resulted in this progression Czars -> Soviets -> "Soviet-style "Reformers" -> Totalitarian style of democracy.... be my guest. But, the fact remains, the Russians' tolerance of these societies and governments has put them in the place they are now.
But, let me add that the Americans have a hand in all this. However, it is still the Russians' ultimate responsiblity in the final situation. I bring up the Americans (i.e. the U.S.) because it is they who think they "solved" a problem and brought about the end of the Cold War. I hate that they are so smug and feel vindicated. They did a great thing. No, sorry. If they truly want to claim a great thing, they needed to provide direction and offer assistance. If the Russians have too much pride and don't want the help, that's their prerogative. (I'm just saying this generally speaking since I think the U.S. has their own corrupt and unethical country).
I am against the U.S. but that's a whole other topic but I have outlined a fraction about that already in a post but it deserves a lot more space and time. Anyway, most governments, if not all, are at fault for irresponsible actions and behavior towards their citizens and corruption or unethical behavior/actions. But, I also want to state that I think it's wrong to polarize political debates all the time. It's always a left v.s. right phenomena or it's this side is right v.s. the other side is wrong. In my view, the left and the right wing are both guilty of all these wrongful actions against people. I don't subscribe to any -isms or any one ideology of either side of the spectrum. Go by individual issues and always THINK out every issue and philosophy.
I think Stalin, Lenin, the guys after and the guys at present are so very guitly of deceiving the Russian people and since the Russian people are following the way of thinking that most people do (including Americans), they will always be perceiving things in a way which is detrimental to them. This allows the politicans to get away with muder - literally.
I wish I could explain this better but I gotta run. |
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spartacus
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| I already posted my evidence. Actually, an opportunity for commie-man to gather his own evidence that that is untouched by US hands. Look up what happened to the Ukraine (forced starvation), the Tatars, and the gulag stories available in the area of Magadan. |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I really see no need to refute anything said by a redneck wanker with a grade 8 education who probably wouldn't understand nit anyway.
And you've offered personal opinions, not proof arse wipe. |
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