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markhagelin · Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:44 am Post subject: The Russian family

As an American, I can look back to a time when our focus was more on the family instead of careers.

Perhaps there is more to it than that, but I see the breakdown of the family due to the push for money and being too indiviualistic. Feminists could have added to the problem as well. Some have pushed too far creating women who are more masculine by nature then feminine.

Some would argue that point, but why are American men seeking foreign wives, not just Russian, but Asian as well?

They want a family and the American women want careers first. Since the objections of the male are viewed as being "chauvanistic" or some other not so polite words, the men quietly look elsewhere. It is true that not all American men are doing this, but increasing numbers of them have looked outside the US.

A number of Russian women I have spoken with, said they have a more traditional desire for family and marriage. They said that they are not finding suitable mates in their Russian males.

One of them said too much alcohol. And another one of them indicated promiscuity since there are more women then men, 88 men per 100 women.

Yes some women may want money. But is it truly money they want or to have a better home or better standard of living?

For a Russian woman who puts an emphasis on marriage and children, it would seem to me that she would want to provide for her own family and children the best that she can or at least set up the foundation in which to have a good home and children.

A person can want money selfishly or to serve a particular purpose which is more altruistic.

I think when a Russian woman says she wants more money, the point should be clarified or it may give some Americans the impression that she is greedy, etc.

It may not give them the impressions as to her true motive whether is is to have a good home or to create the foundation for a good home with children or to have a better standard of living.

While capitalism has its good points it also has its flaws, as Russia and the other former Republics of the Soviet Union embrace capitalism in some form, isn't there a strong possibility that the Russian family unit will break down?

It was not unusual at one time in America, to see 2, or 3 or 4 and sometimes 5 generations living in one house. Now there may be just 2 generations in a home.

Is this the next stage for Russia and the former Soviet Union?

Perhaps I am in a minority, but I don't share the same views like alot of Americans where career is more important than family.

Is there anything which can be done, or any words of warning to the Russian people to not make the mistakes which Americans seem to start making over 50 years ago when it comes to their families?

It seems to me that the breakdown of the family and strong push of indivualism, "do your own thing", has significantly undermined the American culture and system of values.

Indiviudal greed is more important than family.

The United Nations scares me too.

The world's bankers, I prefer the term "banksters", [similar to gangsters] control everything from behind the scenes to suit their needs as they push for a world governement, a New World Order, that they can control. It will not be a benign dictorship.

Population control, abortion, gun control, break up of the family, regional wars, governmental overthrow-political unrest/political change all being done to "soften" up the world for their agenda and conquest.

It seems like they promote conflict and unrest.

True peace can start when "Your former enemy's daughter can marry your son", meaning 2 enemies can have peace as their families unite into 1 family. We need to create a "world" family

I harbor no prejudice towards Russians or any of the people of the former Republics. Perhaps the American leaders did/do , but often they speak on their own behalf, not necessarily for those who elected them.

I feel it would be bad for the Russian people to give up their focus on the family by embracing capitalism to the extreme. And by embracing individualism to the extreme.

The desire for money [and power] is the root of ALL EVIL.

Some American leaders have called the Soviet Union "an evil empire". They should have looked closer to home at some of their own actions.

The Russians and all of the people of the former Soviet republics are beautiful people. All societies have their good people and their bad people.

Too much propaganda has hidden the truth and fostered an enviorment of hate and distrust.

Mark Hagelin
Dover Foxcroft, Maine
USA

mountaingirl · Frequent Guest Joined: 06 Sep 2004 Posts: 57

A sad fact is, I believe history will repeat itself, things are not going to get better but worse. Already Russia is beginning to lose it's taste for the home and morals. My Russian friend has told me that there are more and more pre-marital relationships, drugs, gangs and prostitution is on the rise since communism fell. This is not to say that Communism was good, but that it has been replaced with NOTHING.

The only hope we can have for the home, values, freedom, and everything that is truly good and right in this world, is in God.

The condition of the world, nation, state, town, and then finally the home, depends on one thing...the individual. Things can either become better, or worse, depending on what you make of the life you are given. This is my hope in Russia that individuals lives will be given freedom that one can only find in Christ. That is what is going to keep the home together.

I have never met someone from anywhere (and I have met people from all over the world) and immediatly formed any opion of them based on nationality. Of course, other than the basic, culture, and language differances. I didn't have to learn to be that way. It just came naturally because of who God is, and what He has done for EVEYBODY.

I was raised in a conservative home, so I agree with you on the one world thing. Very frightening. The most frightening part is how everybody just seems to go along with it without much of a fight! It seems like everyone is being duped into their agenda, which is death. Death of the family, death of religious freedom, death of the children, death of the right to protect ourselves from an enemy.

Russia, as we knew it a decade ago is not the same place. Before, the government spoke for the people. They had no control over their circumstances or political agenda of the Communist party, so I would never want to form my opinion of a nation based on the government. Thats why I am so glad I went to Russia and met the people, they are simply wonderful !!

And about women in Russia wanting money, this is a "gross generalization" I don't think you can dump everyone into one big mold and say they are all like that. I certainly hope people don't do that about american women!! One of my friends thats lives in Russia (a women) has a very strong aversion to even talking about money. If you are well fed, and have clothes to wear, she feels like there is nothing to talk about. A very boring subject.

uday · WayToRussified Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 323

I'd probably choose an asian girl over a russian anyday. More exotic and serving.

markhagelin · Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject:

The issue of wanting money can be totally misleading if a person does not know the other person's motive.

The key issue "Is why does the person want the money?"

A homeless person and a banker can both want money. But why they want it is the key.

The homeless person can want it to buy something to eat.
The banker can want it to make more money or to buy a new Mercedes Benz.

I beleive that the person's motive is important.

To say Russians want more money makes them sound greedy just like the Americans.

It is wrong to judge them. You do not know their motive or what is in their heart.

If they are imitating Americans, this may make them as bad as Americans.

I have seen too many bad Americans. I do not want the Russians to become like the bad Americans.

Perhaps my point was unclear.

Mark H
Maine, USA

uday · WayToRussified Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 323

Perhaps you'd be more clear if you didn't use 30 carriage returns between sentence. You're anti-banker bias is also showing.

Atomcat · Lounge Lizard Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 187

cyndy22 · Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:09 am Post subject: The Russian Family

I think it is far too simplistic to compare traditional Russian family with so called American family. And I really hope that Russians will provide greater insight here. First of all in case you aren't aware- we are living in a global society. People are far more mobile as a result. Hell, we would not even be chatting here if there were was not an opportunity to make connections outside provincial family, ethnicity etc.

Mark, I am afraid you are living in a dreamy romantic fantasy of family. I will be one of the first to advocate for family life and family cohesion but there is reality to be considered. Do you think that Russian married people are not both working hard to get by? Hey , life is hard everywhere including Russia, USA and anywhere else on this planet!

As far as I know, it typically takes more than the "man's" income to provide for one's family anywjere in the world. In USA we don't even have national health care! Sure, women will take time off for child birth and even the first couple of years of child rearing. BUT don't be misled.

Globalization and consumerism have done a lot to alter the so called family structure and values. We can all wish for simpler times but also need to be realistic and practical. So yes beware of woman who flock to your notions of family. And please take a moment to reflect upon the global and economic changes going on in ouir world. Don't be so naive my padruga!

markhagelin · Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:44 pm Post subject:

Those notions of family were not my own, but came from a Russian woman I know.I have talked with a few Russian women who agreed with her.

American women can act too masculine, not feminine. They seem unable to revert back to being a woman after getting off of work.

My main point is the American family no longer really exists. It has been replaced with greed and selfishness. America should not be looked up to. Even with its problems, Russia is far better than America.

How many Americans take care of their parents when they get old? Their parents get put in elderly housing or whatever else you would care to call it.

Sad to say, but Americans are the greediest people on the planet. American corporations have little or no respect for any culture.

Their god is money.

And they work hand in hand with the bankers to get every penny possible.

Do you call this right?

Corporations moving from country to country to try to exploit the most people they can and to keep the workers at a poverty level of income. When the workers push for higher wages, the corporation looks for someone else to exploit in a different country.

Multi-national corporate greed where humans are just another raw mineral to be exploited.

In the late 1940's-early 1950's in America a man could support his family on what he made.

My degree is in Economics, and I have studied Marxian and other economic systems. If not for the multi-national corporations, capitalism would work. But there is no longer truly competition. Small business are being eaten up by larger businesses.

There are big oligopolies in almost every industry. Multi-national companies buying up everything, and trying to keep wages to a subsistance level.

The only thing these mutli-national corporations want is money and power, and they don't care at whose expense they aquire it. They don't care who they hurt to make their money. They don't care about the social ramifications, family breakup, homelessness, people who can't afford to buy their own home.

They become the prolateriat [sp?] and everyone else is the lumpenprolateriat[sp?] or in other terms, they're the masters, we're the slaves.

A true Marxian class-conflict between the "haves" and "havenots" is not too far away. In America now, 5-10% of the population owns 90-95% of the wealth. The so-called middle class is disappearing.

As an American I view the election between Bush and Kerry as representing a choice between a fascist [Bush] and a socialist [Kerry].

I prefer a socialist over a fascist any day of the week.

Mark H
Maine, USA

bernhard_riemann · Frequent Guest Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 41

I disagree. Bush is not a fascist

mountaingirl · Frequent Guest Joined: 06 Sep 2004 Posts: 57

why do we have to decide between the lesser of two evils?

markhagelin · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:40 am Post subject:

Might does not make right. The ends do not justify the means.

America has no business in Iraq or the other foreign countries. We are not Big Brother or the world's Policeman. The acts/views of the governemnt do not always agree with those of the people.

Bush is using scare tactics and the "End's justify the means". He plays on people's insecurity to get bad laws, like portions of the Patriot Act as an excuse to take away American's freedom and right to privacy.

America needs to take care of her own people first. Jobs have gone down under Bush, the government's deficit has gone up. All the money used for war in Iraq could have been used to help Americans, or other people in the world.

Too much war has been made, not enough peace.

Benjamin Frankilin once wrote:
"Those who would give up liberty for security, deserve neither"

My ancestors were Pilgrims who came to America for religous freedom. But if they were alive today they would not be free to have their children pray in school.

I also have ancestors who fought in the American Revolution who by their experiences saw the need for a Bill of Rights in the United States Constitution. America has too much flag waving, not enough honoring of prinicples. We are losing/have lost our morality.

Our country was founded by statesmen, men of principle and is run by politicians who only true interest is themselves. Some do help, but the politicians goal is to remain in power, the statesman does what is morally right.

Bush says he is Pro-Life, but contradicts himself by being Pro-Death penalty and Pro-War with Iraq.

I for one am tired of war. Let's make peace instead. If we don't agree on something, then let's agree to disagree.

Cultures show not fight because they disagree, they should learn from each other.

Corporations should act morally, not immorally.

I know all of this is idealistic. But if every person were to start espousing these ideas or sililar ones, then eventually they will catch on.

You can kill a man, but not his ideas. A global family must act like a family and put an end to the madness.

Just my rantings as I get sick of what I see in this world, and hope for a better one. Each generation has a responsibility to try to make a better world.

Mark H
Maine, USA

Mogsfan · WayToRussified Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 490

I think this is a really good forum and I like that the moderator(s) allows so much. That's good. I think so, anyway. I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of people in this thread.

I have strong opinions on these topics: Bush/American politics, Russian politics, etc. etc.

Basically, I think Bush et al. are tyrants. If you read alternative media, you will be shocked and start feeling depressed. What he and his cronies are doing is incredulous. Kerry is just another one of them, too.

As much as I agree that no one can look up to America, Russia is no better. Why can't people criticize their own countries and its citizens? Basically, my theory is simple. People are stupid. I'm Canadian but man, Canucks are idiots. We're all dumb. If you look at Russia, they are very unethical. The Americans are, too. I know this sounds like generalizing but you have to understand what is being said as well as what is intended. For simplicity, I am generalizing but it doesn't mean I think every single person in that country is unethical or immoral. It's just that the numbers are so large, you might as well discuss it in a way that it is, literally, a generalization. Everything I have read illustrates there's a lot of horribly unethical dealings going on in Russia's political system. Ditto that for their economic system. People know what a black market is. Russians themselves can verify or refute allegations regarding mafias, organized crime and the like (not to mention, their inner-workings with Russian government) and their influence on Russia's economy. However, I was flabbergasted at discovering the extent of corruption and the selling out of America by the United States' leaders. Talk about global conspiracies!

Anyway, this topic could go on and on and it gets really depressing so...

Mogsfan · WayToRussified Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 490

I don't think there's as many differences between Russia and America as people are suggesting. I think both countries are full of greedy people. The differences are found in the languages spoken, the state of the country and stuff like that. As for women not trying to get money... please. It's just the way it is. Look, people, all these countries and their corresponding cultures are having huge shifts towards western culture. Even China. Now, yes, these countries will take some of the western cultures and then come up with their own hybrid, if you will, and redefine them. But, there is a pattern and a lot of the citizens are illustrating the same awful and negative traits that Americans can show. You can't bash Americans and then try to hold your head high and say your country (insert yours here: X) is superior.

Russian girls, LOTS OF THEM, will entertain thoughts of scamming or getting money in an easy way. If Russia is geting influenced on a global scale, by Western ideals and ways, they will incorporate a lot of the negative sides or traits of capitalistm or whatever trait the West may encompass. I'm no socialist either but we're all human. People are jerks and if they don't have it in their heart, to have some compassion, decency and/or ethics (you can keep adding to that), then they will commit crimes or in other words, become a bad person or do bad things.

markhagelin · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:05 am Post subject:

I live right next to Canada, been there several times. I have found them to be very nice.

I have been across America too. The best people in America tend to be rural, not urban.

I am not trying to be negative, I was trying to encourage vigilance in trying to the preserve family.

I love my country, but I hate was is happening within it.

I have never robbed or assaulted anyone, nor have I even thought of doing such.

I lived in Denver, Colorado for 15 years before coming back to Maine. Got jumped once, not by a stranger but by someone who knew me and knew I had just been paid.

I voted for Bush the first time, but not this time. I am fiscally conservative but not socially conservative [except for 1 issue which I won't even bring up].

In any case, family is important, Russian, American, Canadian, nationality doesn't matter. People are people either good or bad.

Old saying "Tyranny reigns when good people do nothing". I think we are all responsible to help to create a better world without national boundries. We need to try to keep greed in check.

There is said to be a cosmic karma which will balance things back. But it has also been said that one person's dogma got run over by a karma. [Sorry bad joke.]

Mark H
Maine, USA

I totally agree when Mogsfan says:

Atomcat · Lounge Lizard Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 187

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