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wavetossed
WayToRussified
Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 339
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 Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:12 am Post subject: What can we learn from the Russian people? |
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We should talk about some of the things that we can learn from the Russian people. After all, they took a peasant economy and built it into an industrial superpower in only 3 generations, they put the first man in space, built an infrastructure spanning the largest country on earth, sustained the world's longest lived empire.
So what can we learn from the Russian people? |
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candide
Frequent Guest
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:59 am Post subject: |
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ahem, or whatever, but the largest country on earth, in terms of geographical size is CANADA. And if anyone is interested, the coldest capital city in the world is Ottawa (ok, second coldest if you include Ulan Bator), but not Moscow.
As to your statement that it 'took a peasant economy and built it into an industrial superpower in only 3 generations', i think China has done it, or will do it, in less time.
having said all that, this is NOT a flame, wavetossed, and i fully agree with you that it would help this forum to focus on the more positive contributions of contemporary Russia. But then again, how many on this forum would be interested?
The achievements you mentioned, including the first man in space, happened during the soviet times, but what has been achieved since the break up of the soviet union? The pessimistic side of me says that Russia has tried to imitate the western free economy and now has the oligarchs (no different from the Enron, Worldcom, Martha stewart, etc, etc). Is that an achievement? The positive side of me says that Putin (and please, this is not a blanket endorsement) is doing something about it, though in ways that the western world may not like. However, it is an indication that Russia is trying to find its own way and solve it in the Russian way, and let us respect that? |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| What can we learn from Russia? That drinking vodka by the glassful isn't so bad. |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but what has been achieved since the break up of the soviet union? The pessimistic side of me says that Russia has tried to imitate the western free economy and now has the oligarchs |
Good post, candide. IMHO, the problem with comparing the current or more recent state of Russia with that of the old-style American society of the early 1900s (or Prohibition-era crime-dominated society) is that now, Russia has several models to choose from of "democratic" states and 'free-market' societies. Most countries have reverted to some sort of free market and capitalistic society. There is even the 'Welfare States' to choose that sort of model if one wishes to retain some socialistic aspects. I think the main thing to consider regarding Russia is how NOBODY in Russia criticizes politicians and people in general. They seem to tolerate everything as if it is a normal state or the "Russian" psyche. So, does this mean Russians are inherently unethical and corrupt? They have a totalitarian mindset? If not, then why isn't there more demands for reform and standard codes of behavior? Why not demand more just law (enforcement)?
The other problem with imitating the West regarding capitalism and free market politics or economics is that it appears Russia fails to acknowledge or understand the more negative aspects of it: greed, lack of conscience, the need to balance individual goals and wealth with those of the general populace, the need to address inequalities and struggles within the system etc. That kind of thing. One has to wonder why it is so easy to drift towards the less desirable aspects of Western ways. If you consider Russia's history and how most Russians gravitated towards accepting or even outright supporting revolutions of such undesirable and selfish historical figures, we might understand better how Russian society has progressed to this point.
Btw, whatever happened to such figures like Yavlinsky et al. I can't think of the other names but back in the 90s or late 90s, I thought those fellows were pretty good for Russia. I might have been naiive, I don't know, since I didn't know a lot about them or what they truly wanted but at the time, I thought they had "unRussian" viewpoints and could have joined the rest of the selfish Russian robber barons but didn't? |
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candide
Frequent Guest
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| uday wrote: | | What can we learn from Russia? That drinking vodka by the glassful isn't so bad. |
tell me about it.....
During my college years, quite some time ago, i took great pride in being able to drink as much, if not more, than anyone else. Until one fateful day when i got myself involved with a bunch of really great Ukrainian canadians, and they invited me to their homes for a 'party'. To make this story short, i woke up on a sofa, with this mama of all Ukrainian mamas (ok babushka) shaking me and trying to see if i am still alive. She then force fed me with all kinds of juices and soups, most of which i cannot identify as to their origins.... and she would not let me go home until i could stand up and walk on my own, well sort of.
and that is how my interest in Ukraine and Russia started...
Perhaps we can talk about the contributions of Babushkas in contemporary Russian society? Or about never trying to keep up with those endless vodka toasts, but is fun while you are still conscious.
I dont wish to hijack the intent of the original poster, and i still think the original post has merit. |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:41 am Post subject: |
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I love cookies and ice cream at local chruch texas
We should all make big quilt for our Russian friends
Praise the lord
Last edited by Dr-Fauste on Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| candide wrote: | | uday wrote: | | What can we learn from Russia? That drinking vodka by the glassful isn't so bad. |
tell me about it.....
During my college years, quite some time ago, i took great pride in being able to drink as much, if not more, than anyone else.
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I'd like to party with you  |
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AliceFromMoscow
WayToRussified
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:10 am Post subject: |
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this is so stupid, to measure who can drink more 
i dont see any fun in drinking like a pig. |
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Anna
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 91
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Totally agree with Alice.
Those, who can drink and party only have nothing in their heads and usually are a disgrace for any nation |
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markhagelin
Talk Show Host
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 208
Location: Maine, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| AliceFromMoscow wrote: | this is so stupid, to measure who can drink more
i dont see any fun in drinking like a pig. |
Actually Alice, I don't think pigs drink alcohol.
They may eat the ingredients which go into it, unless somehow it turns to alcohol in their stomach.
But I have seen dogs which like to drink beer.
Mark |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Totally agree with Alice.
Those, who can drink and party only have nothing in their heads and usually are a disgrace for any nation |
Who say that those who drink are a disgrace to their nation. Some your most famous writers and poets were drunks. But you celebrated them as national heros.
| Quote: | Our Russian writer acquaintance — and I mean your typical, Dostoyevsky-quoting, long-haired, chain-smoking intellectual, albeit a published one — made himself welcome in our apartment one weekday night at about 11 p.m. He apologized for being drunk, and asked to borrow 500 rubles (about $17)
His reasoning was impeccable. “My pregnant wife, you see, left me some money, but I spent it all on drink and still have to sustain myself on something for a week until she gets back,” he announced proudly.
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Yeah he is celebrated as a disgrace.
You have this I do not drink therefore I am better than you attitude.
Hmmm, who is celebrate as national hero you or Dostoyevsky?
Tough question.
James Joyce was known to tip a pint or two. Shakespeare liked his booze. Canada's founding prime minster was a drunk. But you are better than all these people. I am not saying being a drunkard is good thing, but labeling anyone that drinks a lot as a disgrace is wrong.
| Quote: | | Every legislative session in 1850 ended with state Sen. Thomas Jefferson Green's now-infamous declaration: "Let's have a drink! Let's have a thousand drinks!" |
Disgraceful!!!!
| Quote: | | But author Jack London, a notorious drunk, did periodically make it down to San Jose from his haunts along the San Francisco Bay waterfront. |
National Drunken Idiot
| Quote: | | And then there's John Steinbeck. Of all the American alcoholics who won the Nobel Prize for literature |
Should never given a nobel prize to anyone that drinks!!!! |
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AliceFromMoscow
WayToRussified
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:28 am Post subject: |
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you confused everything
i said no fun in drinking like a pig.
means that there is no fun in drinking up to condition when you cant do anything except grunting
where did you find a word that i dont drink?
I do drink, sometimes, but i do not participate in who can drink more competitions  drunk girl is such an awful sight
not to mention that when people are drunk they let loose their physical instincts
drinking is ok, if you know where to stop. |
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Anathema
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 186
Location: Phoenix, Àðèçîíà
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| AliceFromMoscow wrote: | you confused everything
i said no fun in drinking like a pig.
means that there is no fun in drinking up to condition when you cant do anything except grunting
where did you find a word that i dont drink?
I do drink, sometimes, but i do not participate in who can drink more competitions drunk girl is such an awful sight
not to mention that when people are drunk they let loose their physical instincts
drinking is ok, if you know where to stop. |
I used to love to get really drunk...I just hated having to make a ton of apologies the next day
Now I like to get a nice buzz and maintain it. |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Anna wrote: | Totally agree with Alice.
Those, who can drink and party only have nothing in their heads and usually are a disgrace for any nation |
Well, aren't we just holier than everyone else. Quite the generalization, most people drink massively when travelling, it's part of the fun, but I guess they're all disgraces. Shit, even Moses liked a good drink.
| Anna wrote: |
I used to love to get really drunk...I just hated having to make a ton of apologies the next day
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Best quote of the day. |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I used to love to get really drunk...I just hated having to make a ton of apologies the next day
Now I like to get a nice buzz and maintain it. |
It has five years that you have maintained your buzz!!!
Uday was the quote | Quote: | Anna wrote:
I used to love to get really drunk...I just hated having to make a ton of apologies the next day and have to find where panties are |
[/quote] |
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