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nicmac
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:04 am Post subject: Read the Travel Guides First |
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Hi everyone,
I am from Australia. I will be visiting Belorussia and Russia for about 8 weeks in December 2004 - January 2005. I found this site recently and have begun viewing this site.
This is a very informative and useful site. It is frequently a relief to receive answers to specific questions, to obtain local knowledge, and, to hear and share the experiences of others. Thanks to everyone who posts and responds.
Often, I am surprised by the questions raised in the forums. Many of these basic questions are answered in travel guides such as "Lonely Planet" and "Pilot". Obviously, some of the information contained in these guides is not current. But, on the whole, I have found their currency is sufficiently recent. (I have travelled through Canada, USA, UK, NZ, Asia, and Mexico.) A thorough reading of such a guide will provide the reader with a broad picture of what to expect, answer many basic questions, and provide sources for further resources.
There is still a huge need for sites such as this.
I also find it interesting to read "literature" from, or about, the places I visit. When compared to the total cost of travel, a few roubles for a book is a small price to pay to enrich the experience. (Of course, if you are just going for the clubs and to meet people from the same country you left, don't bother buying a book.)
This aside, for example, Dostoyevsky's "Crime and Punishment" is set in St Petersburg in the late 1800s. It is still a good, but "heavy" read. You will understand more of the Russian psyche after reading this book.
There are also two interesting literary guides: "A Traveller's Companion to St Petersburg" and "The Companion Guide to St Petersburg".
Perhaps visiters to this site would like to add their own reading suggestions????
Nick. |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree. When I went, I practically printed out the entire site, the info on here is better (and more current) than any guide book. |
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Anna
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 91
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| I had several high references of "Lonely Planet" guidebooks |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| I've never been a fan of LP. They're always outdated as soon as their published and they only report the obvious. If you want to know what's happening in the city or the cool clubs, etc, you have to look elsewhere... like w2r.net |
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Anna
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 91
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:03 am Post subject: |
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People don't just tour "cool clubs" 
Sometimes they are curious to know something seriously interesting - You don't travel to other countries to see their "cool clubs" - it's a waste of time
If the person reads Dostoyevsky, I doubt he'll go for "cool clubs" only. |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Anna wrote: | People don't just tour "cool clubs"
Sometimes they are curious to know something seriously interesting - You don't travel to other countries to see their "cool clubs" - it's a waste of time
If the person reads Dostoyevsky, I doubt he'll go for "cool clubs" only. |
I read Dostoyevsky and look for "cool clubs", I fail to see your point. If you travel to simply see a few landmarks, why not read a pic book? |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If the person reads Dostoyevsky, I doubt he'll go for "cool clubs" only. |
Dostoyevsky was living today, he would be drunk in a bar. He renowed for tipping the bottle. But since he wrote great literature, you can ignore that fact. So basically I have come to observation that Anna believes that only great people are allowed to drink and average people are not. Anna, you are Nazi like Jeegar. You have these rules that use for some poeple and not others. [/quote] |
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nicmac
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Dr Faust
Your logic is nonsense.
Dear Anna,
I agree. On the whole, my experience is similar to yours - Those people who think "clubbing" is the cutlural attraction of St P, are less likely to be into partaking of the other rich experiences that a city like St P offers. To the moron who called you a "cultural nazi", (or what ever), he/she misses the point.
Nick |
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brandalpayne11
Talk Show Host
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 245
Location: NC, US
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have flown 16 hours to Hawaii just to go to a outdoor "clubbing" event. I spent every night dancing my azz off, went to bed around 3-7 am, slept till 4-5 in the afternoon got ready & enjoyed the sights..ie. food, shows, beach  till 11-12:00 then go party again.
I said all that to say this; even if u go somewhere mainly to go "clubbing" you can still enjoy the sights if your cultured @ all |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| nicmac wrote: | Dr Faust
Your logic is nonsense.
Dear Anna,
I agree. On the whole, my experience is similar to yours - Those people who think "clubbing" is the cutlural attraction of St P, are less likely to be into partaking of the other rich experiences that a city like St P offers. To the moron who called you a "cultural nazi", (or what ever), he/she misses the point.
Nick |
The two aren't mutually exclusive you fool. I enjoy going to clubs as much as I enjoy checking out interesting things in the city, I fail to see why your panties are in a bunch? Whats wrong with spending the day at the hermitage, dinner with a prostitute and the night clubbing? |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Dr Faust
Your logic is nonsense.
Dear Anna,
I agree. On the whole, my experience is similar to yours - Those people who think "clubbing" is the cutlural attraction of St P, are less likely to be into partaking of the other rich experiences that a city like St P offers. To the moron who called you a "cultural nazi", (or what ever), he/she misses the point.
Nick
_________________
Nick. |
That nice have nice trip!!!
You are idiot. Juts because something is historical and the country has stated it as national monument then it is cultural. Cultural is about people and situations. For everyone it is different. Cultural is actually going out meeting and talking to people. Dostoyevsky was a drunk and he is also consider to be one of Russia's greatest writers aka cultural. In his life time, he hit many bars and tipped many bottles. Through his experiences drunk and sober and with great intelligences, he saw and describe many things in Russia and Russian that were grand and unique. THus he saw different cultural. So someone actually going clubbing can see unique and understanding beyond you going to the Hermitage.It comes down to the individual and how his mind was developed to take the life around him and see unique things in life. Things that include this is babouchka selling strawberries on the side of road. Orchastra busking for money outside the metro. The way kids are trying to get around the "face control", but you & Anna are too good to the uniqueness of the people including the clubbing. I would rather take a great written book and see what they see, that a travel book , because it describes people, not buildings. But you are probably one thiose people who goes to movies to watch the special effects. But you two go see what the state has declared as cultural and has officially proved by Putin as cultural. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I think you all are being too ctitical of each others views. It is obvious that the majority of people who post on this site are very intetrested in Russian culture and as Dr. F said- culture is very broad. Making the effort to see and learn how people live, work, love, fight and play is cultural awareness. And I think interacting with Russian people is at least for me and others more culturally enrighing and interesting. I enjoy meeting the locals and bars are a great place to get to know locals. I am not so much into clubbing, though that is fun sometimes. But I prefer finding smaller pubs and bars wherte local people hang out. I have met some great and memorable people this way. But its true that you can meet people anywhere- markets, flea markets, cafes, metro, trains, ferries, music stores, ANYWHERE. You have to be open and not too shy or embarrassed to speak what you can of Russian language etc. I would not have a great time traveling if I only saw so called museums, churches, gardens etc. I can take so much of that. Its the people that I am drawn too. By the way can someone tell me if kids are permitted in barswith their parents? In US most bars will not allow this and it is a law. My son enjoys hanging with us in the bArs sometimes (when we are lucky enough to get him in). He plays video games and he watches sports if tv is there and drinks his soda etc. He is a little con artist too because he is not shy and people give him money to play games, music etc, Now some people are probably going to think we are bad parents but that's not true. We don;t get stinking drunk and forget about Alex. We all have a good time, meet people and we think a few drinks helps make a good time even better. Especially when on vacation. Aren't vacations and travelingt supposed to be fun? |
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AliceFromMoscow
WayToRussified
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| I think this is a big mistake to take a child to a bar. He gets used to seeing drunk and drinking people from childhood and thinks its absolutely normal. I bet he'll start drinking alcohol much earlier than his friends, because he has seen it so many times that he would think this is absolutely normal... |
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VictoR-Tdot
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:24 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about taking a child to a bar....but If you are a parent and it's a special occasion and you have friends over I think it's ok to let your child...if he's at least i dunno..12 have a little bit of wine(highest class of alcohol lol)...but you have to set an example by drinking in moderation....then when the child turns 19... ( the drinking age in Canada, it's 21 in the US..which is ridiculous i think, what is it in Russia? do they have one?)...or when his friends start drinking..he won't see it as such a forbidden fruit and won't go overboard...at least that is how I was raised...well my dad let me drink ...but my mom would complain so it wouldn't be much  . |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| i realize some people don't think this is a good idea. Of course we do not want Alex witnessing drunking episodes of people who make fools of themself. Not everybody who goes to bars are that way. And it is not that we do this on a regular basis. When we travel to certain destinations we have done this. Last June we were in New York City and went to a couple bars. We also took Alex to the Lion King, Empire State Building, Toy store, and Central Park. Bars are not the focus of out trips, but I don't think we are harming Alex. We were in Aruba last year and besides the beach and snorkeling , Alex hung out with us at our hotel outside bar. Abd there was entertainment there. Sure people were drinking cocktails and having a good time, my husband and I included. And at our home we frequently have people over for sports events, dinner, celebrations, and we even have a very nice bar in our house. Does that make us bad parents? Actually Alex loves our parties and gatherings because our friends bring their children and the kids have a blast. I am not asking any of you for permission. I am fine with the way we raise our son. He is a great kid. |
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