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MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

Dr. Fauste,

You are clearly very prejudiced against America and its military. I have no doubt that there are lots of idiots in American army (just like in any other army). However, due to the fact that the army here is professional, most of the people serving in the army are highly motivated, and I don't think most come from any "ghetto". As far killing their own during the first gulf war - what you said is a good example on how to misinterpret facts and statistics. The reason why the number of friendly kills was higher was not because "idiot" soldiers kills so many of their own, but because the number of Iraqi casualties was very low. And it takes one serious accident in a war zone to cause massive friendly causalties. Most military institutions, like West Point, for example, are some of the most competitive and rigorous in the world. Quite a few West Point graduates went on to become CEOs, successful politicians or succeeded in other fields. There are lots of very young people in the army nowadays (18-19yo). I bet many of them are naive and inexperienced in life. But you are not being objective. I remember that case when Canadian soldiers were killed by mistake and I saw a lot of official and unofficial apologies being given to Canada. It was widely covered on the American TV and many senior military commanders were questioned on the Capitol Hill. I think we can disagree about certain decisions (like the current Iraq war, for example). But I think American forces often do the dirty work no one else wants to do. And Canada benefits more than any other country from being so close to the US. Not to mention the oil (talk to your friends in Alberta).

Dr-Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

MR USA SPICE, you are so WRONG. It took TWO weeks for George Bush to apologise to our soldiers. TWO WEEKS.
I was asked what the average forreigner soldier thinks of American Soldiers and this is what was said. AKA they rely on technology more than training for their tasks to be completed. Ghetto comment was addressed to the marines who do must of their recruit in poor areas. Many American soldiers join the American military to afford an education or trade. Thus the term "Professional" soldiers is not full true. For many "Ghetto" kids, is there only way to afford to get a good career and an education. That is why maine recuiters are RENOWNED to recruit in poor areas of the USA.

Dr-Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

Third U.S. 'friendly fire' incident in Afghanistan
The incident marks the third time that U.S. forces have been involved in friendly fire accidents during the conflict in Afghanistan.

Friendly fire incidents late last year left three Americans and five Afghan fighters dead and more than 40 people injured -- including slight injuries to Hamid Karzai, who now heads Afghanistan's interim government.

All eight deaths came in a December 5 incident north of Kandahar. In that incident, and another nine days earlier near Mazar-e Sharif, a B-52 bomber dropped a 2,000-pound (980-kilogram) guided bomb on positions manned by ground troops who were directing air strikes against nearby Taliban targets.

In both those accidents, preliminary findings indicate that confused communications between the ground and air crews resulted in the bombs being programmed to hit friendly ground troops.

cyndy22 · Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:44 am Post subject:

Mr. Spice,
I think you are sensible and fair regarding sentiments about US military. While I respect Dr. Fauste for his intelligence and vast experiencen in the world, I think that like so many others, he has been vulnerable to exploitave and incorrect media regarding iRAQ War.
While I do not think USA should be there, I have to say that US military just like other countries military, are heros. For example, I myself would never have the courage or audacity to enlist in the military. Yet I can understand how young people ages 17-21 feel this is a career move. Young people from any country are of course quite vulnerble to propraganda and even more so- hope and expectation that military service will result in educational and career success.

I do think and agree that the Bush Administration is wrong, immoral and incorrect in respect to the war in Iraq. But I have to admit that at the very least, USA is not afraid to take a stand to stand up for democracy. Sure, everyone is critical of USA especially regarding military, but when push comes to shove, where does your country want to be allies with and get military aid if needed?

Dr-Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

Dr-Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

cyndy22 · Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject:

I am not so naive to think that other countries love and respect USA. Where did you train Doctor with so many soldiers from other countries? War does suck but like it or not technology is the state of the art in just about any field. It's interesting to me that I find myself taking the position of defending US military. While I happen to condemn the politicians, I do not harbor negative feelings about young men and women who have enlisted andf are doing their jobs. They put their lives on the line in spite of what we all think is right or wrong politically. There is such a thing as brain washing and I think many people recognize this.

Dr-Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

cyndy22 · Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:42 am Post subject:

Come on now- do you really think that generals and other superiors running the show in other countries fighting wars are any better? That's why they like to enlist young men. Young people don't question authority and narec easy to brainwash. War is pure hell and unless you have been there on the front line, I don't think you or I can be so judgemental.
I thought we were gettiing away from bashing US but I see I was wrong.

Dr-Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

Am I bashing the US or US Army methodology? Sorry I forget the US Army is USA or that can be assumed by your conclusion.
Look at the records of other countries getting kiled by friendly fire and it is much less and the reputation is better. The question was asked what do Russians think of American Military. I gave an answer based on my conversations. American Soldiers are just Ghetto Boys with expensive guns. That is many people views of American Soldiers. You can say what you want, but it is true. I guess you cannot face the truth. You can say I bashing your poor old country and whine and complain, but I have stated FACTs and you do NOT.

If you think the US Military is so great, then send your kid there. I dare you. You can cry star and stripes forever, but your son said he wanted to enlist as an US Regular Troop, you would scream. US Army enlists the people who are down troden and that is why Recruiters hit the poor areas of USA. If you think that the enlisted men are so great in your own country, why did your government CUT Vetrans Benefits. I watched the campiagn from both parties, nobody compliained about screwing the people that fought for your country. I guess your country does not respect the men that enlisted. BTW that famous football player that gave up a million dollar career to fight for democracy in Afghanistan, was killed by friendly fire.
Funny that you DO not think that bashing Bush is bashing , but Bashing the modern day US Army is. I did not say the kids were bad, but the US Army new polical agenda. Anyways I had enough of this.

Later

cyndy22 · Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject:

You claim to say that you do not think the kids in the military are bad and yet you refer to them as a bunch of ghetto kids with guns.

And Dr. last I knew, you are Canadian. So I don't think you can claim to know what the majority of Russians think of US enlisted military.

While you are a smart guy, you tend to be a know it all sometimes.

slavnori

Having served in the American Army in an elite group the Rangers from 1968-1971, serving three tours in Vietnam, being twice wounded I am still proud of my service. I also have spent some time in Russia in which I have mostly military contacts active, and retired. Most of my friends are of the higher ranks, but I enjoy also talking with the younger Russian soldiers. I stay in contact with my friends there, and visit them as often as possible. I also stayed with Russian friends who worked at a steel factory in Ishfahan, Iran during the years 1976-78 where I was working at the time.
The old Army I knew well, but it has changed. I agree with Fauste on some of his views, but he is sort of out in left field when commenting on on some subjects. Sure, you will hear some Russian military speak badly of the American military, but after having spent so much time with the Russian military of different ranks, and branches, I know they who speak badly are the minority, and they speak out of ignorance because they know very little of American military. The higher ranks which are mostly career soldiers of course are more trained, and know the American military much better. These guys speak of more respect, but also of distrust concerning American military. They also understand that even with the shortcomings of the US military that they are still the largest and most powerful. The Russian's in military service know also that the US military is the best equipped, best paid, and have much better moral than any other country. One Russian officer told me the worst problems his military has is low moral, very low pay which is not regular, and because they still enforce their version of the draft. He also stated going into battle with low moral is like going into battle with no bullets.
One reason I believe the US military has more people killed by friendly fire is because they are the ones who are doing most all of the offensive, and defensive fighting. When you have so many thousands of military personel working with other military units from different countries in any war, or battle, the logistics used to communicate can, and are a nightmare. Accidents happen more frequently, sad to say, but then we are not there to know what's going on, on the front lines of battle.
I believe the American military had much more disipline during my time of service, but that is not to say today's US soldiers are untrained or undisiplined. There are a lot of Ghetto Boy's with expensive weapons, and there are also a lot of college educated young men serving right there with them. Yep, today's military is Hi-Tech, but you can't expect any military to go back to fighting with sticks and rocks anymore. I admire the young soldier's of the US, the job they do, and respect their most varied reasons for enlisting. I may not agree with the politics I will never say a bad word about the soldier's who fight, and die.

vorteks · Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject:

As an american military in Russia you are most likely to be questioned about your motivations for being in russia, with options ranging from spying to sex /obedient blonde wife seeking tourism.

The rest of the discussion is off topic and should be part of another thread.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

Dr Fauste,

Aren't you tired of typing? You are longing for some left-wing blog on the internet where you can express your views. The original question was how would somone who is an American soldier would be treated in Russia? It would make sense if the answer was from somneone who is an American soldier and visited Russia and can share a similar experience. Or, if someone living in Russia replied about his/her view on the American military. 80% of what you say smell bias and inability to look objectively at the problem. I don't really remember how long it took for GW Bush to apologise to Canada. I don't think it really matters how long it took for him. Maybe due to beauracracy or some unnecessary investigation they were trying to be caucius until it becomes clear what really happened. Maybe it was just an oversight on the part of the military and polititians. Let's say that GW Bush is a bad president and did not apologise quickly enough. So what? The apologies do nothing to save people's lives. I have no doubt that it was indeed an accident and I am certain no one intended it to happen. As fas as who benefits more from the trade between US and Canada, I think it's very difficult to say. You would need to research the issue to know who benefits more. But the answer to this question is unimportant - we know both countries benefit, so who cares, Dr?

As far as your statement that marines recruit for new soldiers in the poor neighborhoods, maybe there's some truth to that. Obviously, people that don't have a career and don't see much future for themselves are more likely to join the army. That does not in itself mean that the the soldiers are not motivated, not professional enough and that American soldiers do not reserve respect and support in what they do. It seems to me that most soldiers at least deserve the benefit of the doubt, Mr Dr. You seem to be very judgemental about the US and about its military. And from what you say and how you say one can easily notice disdain for America and its policies. I think civilized people can agree to disagree. But you should come to America more often and learn a bit more about our people and our military. I think the picture you are painting here makes us look real bad to our Russian friends and only feeds to the same stereotypical crap you see in most countries, including many canadian newspapers. I myself love Canada, have been there many times and I am glad that most people in Canada don't subscribe to your views, I think.

Dr-Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

First I am not leftist. I am more of bloody Cpitalist than you are. I do not government interfering which makes me a leftist. You are wrong there. I have stated that the US Military has been PC and BS through the US Government. Another words it has become a big bureaucracy and cover up instead in the past in which it was great fighting machine. It has over bloated budget, corruption in its material purchase. Look at the Bradley tank, Mr Spice, another government screw up purchase. Canada is trying to kick them government out of our military purchase with the shitty subs that we bought. US military covers it up. THe soldiers deserve much better than what they are receiving. I am not talking money or benefits, but the fact corruption and bureaucracy of US government in the US Army puts the soldiers at risk. That is why you have increase friendly fatalities within the US military. I am not bashing Bush and his decisions and I am not bashing the USA, but I am bashing the institution called the US Army in its tactics.
So examine the facts. FF has significantly increased casualities, the US soldiers are views as Ghetto Kids(this is from other military aka SAS, SA Special forces, Canadian Airbourne, ETC, Do you need a signed confession?), Purchase of equipment has not been the greastest(Canada has been worse).
Why ?
Poor communication and training and over reliance on technological equipment that is not battle proven. Evidence, massive amount bombing on their troops which indicates poor communication and traiining. Patriot missle was a joke and even lowerr rank military stated that it was unable to do what it supposeto do and yet the upper ranks commissioned it to the Gulf and made media headlines that it was greatest intercept missle ever.(you notice the politicians involvement in the military). Ghetto kids, well that fact is that US military has to enforce the honor back in the Military and remember that they are ambassdor for their country and their actions are reflected to EVERY man and woman that has put on a uniform. So when they do something stupid like some of pictures I have seen in Iraq, they are disgracing every person that has ever wore the uniform. Purchase equipment, well the politicians have too much to say about this also. Bradley is a piece of junk according to what it should have been. Patriot missle was the same. Too much concentration is made on publicity , than the actual lives of the soldiers and allies that fight next to them. Too many military brass will sacrifice the lives of the soldiers instead admit they made a mistake. No soldiers should die because some idiots pride

Nice Canadian comment, it shows me that you know Jack about Canada. YOu have talked with all Canadians then ? I am leftest right. That is complete dumb remark. My USA bash is simply this. I love the USA, but it is run by over bureaucratic and corrupt government and legal system. I like to see the USA simplify its government and legal system. USA needs less government than more rules and regulations. Which makes me not a leftest? I have stated this numerous times here in the forum. USA has the highest productivity per person than any other country. It has a great history of innovation and entrepreneurialship. If an opportunity is seen , they will take advantage of it. They are best business that I have ever dealt with. US Government is the opposite. If you phone about a question, you will get different answer every time. You seem to have more red tape than a socialist country like Canada. Inflated legal costs have a negative factor in be able to do business there.

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