Way to Russia Talk Lounge

Vic · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:56 am Post subject:

Actually, it does. I have alot of friends that are native Abkhazians and they say it loud and clear - Georgians will not come back here. And they are happy to have us there to protect them from Georgians, as they know that with us there the Georgians will not dare attack. I know that you think that everyone in the former soviet union hates Russia, but maybe you should look at the facts prior to making rushed dicisions?
Vic

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

I'm not just talking out of my ass either vic. I've got "facts" and experiences too:

I have friends and aquaintances from Ukraine, Lativa, Czech and Solvakia, Armenia and one South Ossetian who utterly despise Russians and resent the things that you guys have done to them in the past. The Latvian passed through Kaliningrad was she says the conditions are even worse than in Russia.

Then there is my ethnic Russian girlfriend from Kazakstan who says her and her family has experienced increased and intense discrimination from native Kazaks. The Kazaks she says are campanging to have Russian dropped as a state language and she says that Russians are leaving in droves because of the increased second-class treatment and discrimination. Her family who has been there from generations are considering moving back to Russia.

Besides personal experience, the facts speak for themselves: the fact that all of the Warsaw pact countries refused Russia's invite for VE day celebrations just to openly snub you guys. Not to mention the widely reported discrimination and second and third class treatment against Russians in the Baltics, Georgia, Poland and etc that my girlfirend experienced in Kazakstan and that my Czech friend says thats "what they deserve".

Vic · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject:

Yes, but we are talking about Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia here. I know that there are problems in the former Warsaw pact countries. But the fact is, they do not do themselves any good by treating us bad. Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Latvia for example, 25% of their national income came from a Russian oil pipeline and the Ventspils terminal. When they started acting up, we just shut that pipeline down and diverted the oil to the Primorsk and Mazhakai (Lithuania - they treat Russians pretty well, aunt lives there, I know). So now they screwed themselves, they loose free money and many jobs, plus, an empty pipeline still takes $$ to maintain, but does not give anything in return! Estonia also had some issues from 1992 to about 1998. But then they realised that it does them no good to piss off Russia, so as of 1999, Russian is MANDATORY in all schools and they don't build SS monuments anymore. Latvia is the only thick country left in the Baltics. I was in Tallinn 3 weeks ago and met with Russians living there, I was treated well and the Russians said that they are not treated like second class citizens anymore.
Kazakhstan, yes. I am from Omsk (border with Kazakhstan) and this does piss me off. There are more NATIVE Khazakh immigrants than I can count there not to mention just as many illegals. To top it all off you have flocks of Russians that had the unfortunate circumstance of ending up in Khazakhstan when the Union collapsed. You should have seen the German villages in Khazakhstan after 95'. The Germans were so pissed off at that treatment that they just left it all and moved anywhere they could, just out of Khazakhstan. For this, ofcourse they do pay. But the CIS countries in Asia are very primitive, not being racist, but it is true. After the Soviet Union collapsed, they regressed by about 50 years. Their attitude towards Russians isn't because they think that we treated them badly or whatever, they are just acting like gods on their newly aquired heap of trash. Can't say its all that bad either...look at how the real estate prices in Omsk tripled in the last 5 years just because of all the immigrants!
Vic

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

Long and boring discussion. One simple answer: Kaliningra will remain as part of Russia for the years to come. Period.

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Monunments to the SS? I have never heard of this? How is this happening? I never thought that anti Russian hatred would spill over like that.

Well my friend, I agreed with you there. In fact my girlfriend's aunt had to move back to Karaganda (where the family is from) from Omsk because of anti-Russian discrimination. In fact, her best friend she grew up with in Kazakstan (who is German) moved to Germany because of the hatred.

And back to Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia. The South Ossetian I know said that she both welcomed and resented Russian influence. Welcomed because it kept the Georgians away and resented because she wants Abkhazia to be independent and that Russia is sticking their necks out because the Russians are only protecting their dachas and their resorts and not native abkhazians who were nearly exterminated by Stalin. What do you say to that?

Vic · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:48 am Post subject:

Finally we agree on something Very Happy

I'm glad that I have never had any anti-Russian descrimination against me in Omsk, although I can see how it can happen - there are entire neighbourhoods where they all move into. (Amur would be one of them, several years ago even the cops were afraid to go in! Now its safe but unpleasant.)

Well, I must admit that ofcourse, we are in Abkhazia for our own interests. No country ever does anything out of goodwill, there are always people's interests behind everything. Just one little thing to point out - you cannot just 'buy' cheap property in Akhazia, you have to be a resident to do that, otherwise all of Abkhazia would be bought out in two days. I can tell you how we got that datcha if you are interested, but its one of those 1 of 1000 chances, so it is very very very rare that a non-Abkhazian is going to own property there - its mostly tourists that either rent an apartment for a few weeks or tourists at the resorts.
The reasons that we back Abkhazia is political, as a matter of fact, tourism is far from being one of them. As you know, Abkhazia neighbours Krasnoyarsky Krai, which is the Russian "Florida" and they get very pissed off that in the last several years more and more people choose to go to Abkhazia (its 4 times cheaper for a resort which is of better quality). Coincidently, the only border-crossing into Abkhazia is from Krasnoyarsky Krai, so they do everything possible to make going to Abkhazia a living hell. The reason that we back them is political and only political. Most Abkhazians that I know, actually, I don't know any that aren't Russian citizens as of december 2003, want to be a part of Russia. It is in their interest, the quality of life is improving after being pretty low for almost 10 years. Their lives are more stable. Pensioneers get the (minimum Russian pension) of just over 1200 roubles instead of their Abkhazian 60roubles, not alot, but if you saw the prices there, you would understand. Not to mention the free medical care they get, and the fact that over 95% of the teens in Abkhazia go to study at Russian universities. There are many benefits. The other factor is that they do not have an economy that will be able to sustain itself without us. After all, you cannot run a country, albeit a small one from the proceeds of selling oranges.

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Well since you put it that way, and you live there and all, I can't disagree with you there....... Smile

You shoulda mentioned this earlier instead of the patriotic outburst.

And I talked to the g/f about Omsk and she wasn't too surprised and that they're doing it in the Russian neighborhoods in Almaty and Karaganda.

Cheers mate!

Very Happy

-E

mister_wizzz · VIP Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 559

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Zeus · Frequent Guest Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 21

Kaliningrad stays Russian. Turkey should not join the EU. I'm sure the Turkish are nice people but they arn't Europeans. And for godsakes, Brussels, get Ukraine to join as soon as possible... losing Ukraine would be a serious loss and tragity for European security. Hell it might even persuade Russia to join the EU, which would accomplish what Napoleon and Hitler could not - a united Europe.