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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:25 am Post subject: Soviet Medical |
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Last edited by Paul-Holmes on Tue May 03, 2005 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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renwan
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:23 am Post subject: |
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The big difference you oligarch is that soviet education made us the best of the best, while your private clinics shit is full of rich kids who bought their license.
The buildings might look nicer, but that ain't the important,the important is the knowledge of a doctor.
It is sad to see how superficial our nation has got...you should be in jail or icepicked,like counter-revolutionary fascist trotsky. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:09 am Post subject: |
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How do you spell brain washed in Russia, Renwan? Duh or comrade???  |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Renwan, speaking of doctors, I think you need to see a psychiatrist. |
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jumeh
Just Starting
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: |
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in these "soviet" as their were called clinics funding is cut by the government, and that's why they look ugly and don't have up-to-date equipment,
old people in Russia have no other activities than visiting doctors, but they can't afford expensive clinics, that's why there are so many old women in thies "soviet" clinics.
I agree that it's no good visiting such places, where you are unlikely to be cured....but still there are different ways, fo example in many clinics operations are free for people who don't have enough money, |
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mediashark
Moderator
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1599
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I had been hospitalized in one of those 'infection-clinics' for 2 weeks. Not nice, don't even get to shower (they locked the baths for some reason!), no visitors, roaches crawling around toilets, shortage of medicitation, old folks who get cranky now and then etc, but they finally found out what was wrong with me (2 private docs couldn't figure out) and they fixed me right up. I had to take this option because it had been an emergency and didn't have all the money to go to those private medical centres or even a slightly better government clinic. Those clinics exist, they are horrible, but still have their function. Several Russian patients walked in, saw the state of the place, and requested to be discharged the very next day.
Maybe this guy was an 'oligarch', but everybody deserves the best medical care--and I dare say, better medical care than 'soviet-style' clinics. When you're down and ill, it feels much better to be taken care of in a clean and comfortable clinic. But if you have no choice, it's better to make the best of the situation--be thankful that you've got qualified doctors and nurses to take care of you and given you timely medical help. |
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mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mogsfan wrote: | | Renwan, speaking of doctors, I think you need to see a psychiatrist. |
Or being a good subject for a psychiatric thesis. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Your description of russian clinics for the poor reminded me of some hospitals I saw here in Brooklyn in New York City. They are also filled with old people (mostly russian immigrants) that sit and wait for hours to see a doctor. However, the medicine for regular people here is much better than in Russia, of course. But still, if you don't have money in any country, it's not fun |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Paul-Holmes on Tue May 03, 2005 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously. In "Modern" Russia, the government still acts in totalitarian ways and it's all two-faced. The oligarchs and immediate connection to Putin controls everything and the rich are able to pay/support one's health better than those not so well off.
But, I haven't heard of anyone of any status explain how superior the Soviet health system was. I am not talking about brainwashed Soviet supporters. I am talking about someone-in-the-know. How does renwan know it was better then? The Soviets brainwashed everybody and wouldn't let anyone know of any alternative. I am not supporting privatisation at all as I think Putin's system is corrupt and thus, the health system might be very ill-equiped in Russia, I don't know. But, there isn't any evidence that the previous system was better - only that the service was better.
In Canada, there are long wait times and a massive shortage of doctors/physicans. There are major barriers to becoming a doctor including a very expensive debt and serious barriers to entry. The state pays for it but there are hints of privatising here and there. The government is also corrupt so wastes money that they could put into healthcare. The only place it seems to work is in the Nordic countries. Although, many complain, I haven't heard too many criticize their system to the same extent (Canadians, Americans and citizens of other countries do). |
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wwwadim
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 145
Location: Moscow Region, M-7 Highway, Noginsk
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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The reason in a distress of our medicine in the following. What do you want if president Putin signs the budget where for financing of a war industry and army it is allocated about 40 percent and on financing of school and medicine - about 7 percent? What do you want from president Putin at whom the official salary of 500 dollars and he carries watches for 60000 dollars?
Our Soviet both Russian doctors very qualified and full experts. Only there is no corresponding equipment, conditions, cabinets, it is not enough doctors and the low salary in 100-200 dollars.
Many doctors have left free-of-charge clinics and went to work in paid. Therefore loading in free-of-charge clinics on one doctor has increased in 2-3 times. And the salary has remained the same. The doctor - therapist in free-of-charge clinic usually has 2000-2500 patients on service.
If even will raise the salary to physicians in 4 times and will increase financing by medicine for 5 percent, I think, the situation will change. |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What do you want from president Putin at whom the official salary of 500 dollars and he carries watches for 60000 dollars? |
I agree with you. It is insane that so many countries have a budget in which the allocation or proportion to the military is so much compared to healthcare. It's ridiculous. But, people are too stupid and tolerate too many governments. Not only that, it doesn't make any sense anyway that you have so much military but your people are not healthy or have such inefficient provision of healthcare. People are stupid, man: war is more important to people than health.
Last edited by Mogsfan on Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wwwadim
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 145
Location: Moscow Region, M-7 Highway, Noginsk
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="Mogsfan"] | Quote: | | What do you want from president Putin at whom the official salary of 500 dollars and he carries watches for 60000 dollars? |
Could you rephrase this? |
Yes of course. Putin has monthly wages equal 5000 dollars and his watches on his arm named Patek Philippe Perpetual Calendar (!!!). It costs about 60.000 dollars. But Putin is not a buisnessman - he is a politician, The President! He must not have such enormous monthly wages in Russia.
It would be better if those 60K dollars give to children's care home. |
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mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mogsfan wrote: | | Quote: | | What do you want from president Putin at whom the official salary of 500 dollars and he carries watches for 60000 dollars? |
Could you rephrase this?
I agree with you. It is insane that so many countries have a budget in which the allocation or proportion to the military is so much compared to healthcare. It's ridiculous. But, people are too stupid and tolerate too many governments. Not only that, it doesn't make any sense anyway that you have so much military but your people are not healthy or have such inefficient provision of healthcare. People are stupid, man: war is more important to people than health. Well, how else do you explain the voters voting in the same corrupt a-holes again and again? I better stop before my cynicism and anger become apparent.  |
It starts becoming apparent
It is the same in USA, how explain that so many poor people voted for Bush ? May be the answer is : unappropriate pride (which can be considered as stupidity). |
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slavnori
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: San Palo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject: Russian medical |
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| I really disagree with Renwan. I worked occasionally with my associate,counter part in Russia by the name of Vadik from time to time. On one occasion we had completed a job I thought that I would take him and his wife out to dinner in St.Petersburg, to a docked cruise ship that has a fantastic buffet. Once there, my friend Vadik's face looked just like a new born babe, with his eye's wide, and his mouth gaped open. His wife had the same look. Vadik, and his wife are both highly trained specialist, schooled during Soviet times. This was his, and his wife's first time out to eat at a resturant, in 5 years, and also their first Finnish buffet. As we were eating, and drinking beer he suddenly stopped and began to weep. I asked Vadik why he was crying, he said, because we (Russian's) were always told we had the best of the best. It wasn't until then that he knew that his country had been lying to him. As our jobs require, we spend a lot of time in hospitals, and the Poly clinics there in Russia. Soviet education has not given you the best of the best then, nor does it now, but it has been changing sine 1991 for the better. Russia does have some excellent doctors, but like wwwadim sort of said, they can only work with what they have as for medical equipment, conditions, and the terrible decay of the hospital, or clinic building. The doctors there have no incintive financially to try and better themselves except their desire to help people. Continuing education for the doctors is available, but not required as it is in other countries. All doctors who work in the free clinics get paid by the government which will sometimes pay them, and sometimes not. Until the Russian government pays more subsidises to the hospitals for updated technology, equipment, medicine, and raises the pay of the doctors and nurses (paying regularly) it won't get better. Since I know Russian hospitals, if I had the choice I would never, never use one, but I have had the need of one of their good doctors, of which I furnished the equipment he need to treat me. The highest paid doctor I know makes about $450 a month now, the highest paid nurse about $65 a month, which is still crap because of the rampant inflation.. When I first met them they were making $120 for the doc, and $25 for the nurse a month. I believe those wages will differ across Russia though. There is a lot that could be written on the subject of Russia in reguards to the medical, and dental fields of care. |
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