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martin81
Just Starting
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Holland
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 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: Russia by car |
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| This summer we are planning to make a trip in Russia by car. We start in Holland (where we live) and go through Poland, the baltic states to st Petersburg than Moskow and go back through the Ukraine (Kiev). My question who knows some good city's, nature parks we pass during this drive and how safe or legal it is to do wild camping....? |
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Lord-Adrian
Frequent Guest
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Russia, Orel
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I live in Orel. I learn English.
You can live at me some days free-of-charge.
I wish to receive some lessons.  |
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Intourist
Talk Show Host
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Russia by car |
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| martin81 wrote: | | This summer we are planning to make a trip in Russia by car. We start in Holland (where we live) and go through Poland, the baltic states to st Petersburg than Moskow and go back through the Ukraine (Kiev). My question who knows some good city's, nature parks we pass during this drive and how safe or legal it is to do wild camping....? |
I'd strongly advise against doing Russia by car if you haven't driven here or don't have a Russian friend with you to navigate you through the bureacracy, corruption, and problems you'll have with temporary plates, customs, GAI (road-cops), bribes, fines, etc.
Do you have a notarized Russian copy of your driver's license ? Do you know how much to pay in fines/bribes ? Have you got places to stay (since roadside hotels are practically non-existant) ? Are you aware of the quality of roads here outside of Moscow and will your car survive ?
I'd highly recommend the Baltics and Poland part, but would say you need to do some serious research about Russia and Ukraine
Regards,
Intourist |
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renwan
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Intourist is right, besides what he said, here you dont drive here cars skate! so unelss you know how to continuosly drive on ice.... |
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Intourist
Talk Show Host
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Hooray ! Renwan and I finally agree on something ! I think this requires a drink ! |
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renwan
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:08 am Post subject: |
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yay! buy me a pint, you are the burgeois 
haha!  |
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caz
Frequent Guest
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 17
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| What Intourist says it quite correct, the other thing to remember is that most russian men drive like maniacs. Every time I have had long car journeys in Russia I have always come across fatal accidents, so if you are gonna drive, be v careful. |
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gonethesun
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Exeter, NH
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:19 am Post subject: Maniacs? |
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I think saying that Russian's drive like maniacs ... is a disservice to maniacs! It was absolutely nothing to see drivers passing in the face of oncoming traffic, driving down the centerline at 120 to 130 km/hour on the M8. Was often hard to tell if it was a 2 lane or 4 lane road .. I suspect it was 2 lanes that were treated as 4 lanes if the driver in front of you drifted too far to the left or right.
Really, I hired taxi's to take me around the Rybinsk, Yaroslavl, Rostov Veliky region and down to Sergiev Posad and Moscow. The Sabba Mammoth train from Moscow to Yaroslavl is quite nice. Bring your own food.
You definitely should be wary of the police (or so I am constantly told) who basically seem to be state-authorized criminals and shake-down artists. I dont think you should take this to be an exaggeration. Many black jokes and comments made about bribing of police to extricate yourself from being stopped in a vehicle or on the street.
Interesting thing to note: In the Moscow/Yaroslavl region, I happened to notice that the traffic lights show yellow not only when about to turn red .. but also BEFORE THEY TURN GREEN. So what happens? Naturally people see the yellow indicating it is about to turn green, and accelerate into the intersection (!). Taxi drivers in Moscow seemed quite skilled at this; once they were moving they would rarely even slow down when approaching a red light, preferring to only brake at the last might. Approaching a red light and see the yellow light start to show? Why slow down! If there is an open lane, you can even accelerate and blow past the stopped cars.
Why this doesnt result in more collisions in intersections is beyond me, as obviously drivers will "squeeze the lemon" yellow traffic signal coming the other way also. I suspect perhaps the signals are timed to have a second or so where both directions are stopped to clear the intersection.
As for camping, I noticed an older gentleman sleeping among some trees near the old St. John the Baptist (Tserkov Ioanna Predtechi) in Yaroslavl. He seemed ok.
I can highly recommend this region, especially in the fall if you are lucky enough to have the good weather (Woman's Autumn) that I had September 21 to October 1 this year. I am told it is often colder and more rainy. |
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Poteryan
Frequent Guest
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Maniacs? |
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| gonethesun wrote: | | You definitely should be wary of the police (or so I am constantly told) who basically seem to be state-authorized criminals and shake-down artists. I dont think you should take this to be an exaggeration. Many black jokes and comments made about bribing of police to extricate yourself from being stopped in a vehicle or on the street. |
100% true. In nine months living in Ivanovo, I took three trips to Moscow by taxi, during all of which we were stopped. Each time the police wanted money. My cabbie was an ethical guy, though, and refused to pay. Twice he got away with it since the police didn't really want to file the paperwork. The next time, the police got pissed and took his drivers license away.
The one time I got stopped on foot I understood nothing, but slipped the cop 500 roubles with my documents. He made a show of looking through my papers, handed them back and walked away. But be careful, I've been told that pre-emptive bribery can land your ass in jail just as surely as resistance can.
J |
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chrisrein
Frequent Guest
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I live in Holland too, and this summer I drove with my Dutch car to Russia. In total we drove 3000 kilometres through Russia, of which we were only stopped once by the police at a checkpoint. The agent said a lot to me in Russian (which I didn't understand at all!) after which he checked the temporarily import document of my car. It was OK! The other approximately 15 - 20 police controls looked asthonised to our number plates, after which it looked like they didn't feel the need to let us stop... So no problems with the police at all.
But now something more about my trip to Russia by car. I can advise anyone to do the same, but you must like driving in a car over a very bad road....
We went also via Latvia to Russia, the borderstation near Zilupe (Terespol?) to Russia. We were on a monday morning around 09:00 o'clock at the border, after which it took about 5 hours to pass the border (around 25 cars were in front of us). This was mainly because one check point worked very slowly. We didn't speak any russian and were happy to find a german couple that helped us a little bit with filling in the russian documents! I can advise you to search for english translations beforehand of the russian border and immigration documents. Furthermore you have to pay roadtaxes at the border. The insurance we allready arranged in holland, but you can do this as well very good at the border. Maybe another day is a better day than mondaymorning. But you have to be sure that you have enough time after passing the border to drive to a hotel, as there is nothing behind the border exept cheap gas stations! After we passed the border we drove to Smolensk to sleep. Part of this road was very good (payroad!), part of it was very bad (after the payroad).
The following days we drove via Briansk to Orel, then via Tula to Stupino, to Vladimir, Suzdal, the Wolga, Kostroma, Yaroslavl, Sergiev Posad to Moscow, from which we drove back to Holland in two long driving days. This time the border only took us two hours to pass! Most of these roads were quite good, but you can't drive to fast if you don't want to be stopped by one of the lasercontrols. Happily most Russians warn you with blinking lights for the laser-control points. Yaroslavl is very nice, stay there some time, as well as the centre of Orel and Smolensk. In total we drove 6800 kilometres in 15 days....
For us it was no problem at all to find a (proper) hotel in every town, with visa-registration included. Only for moskow we made a registration two days beforehand, and in Sergiev Posad it was difficult to find a hotel room. However, this hotel was very western, completely different from all other hotels we went to. At all hotels there was a 'secured' car park, weree we parked our car. Only one night we did not gat a registration, but at the border this was no problem at all. A german couple told us they never had had any problems with any missing registration stamps. Only once there car was stolen in St. Petersburg when it was parked outside a car park.
As it is not possible (for us at least) to insure your car in Russia against theft, we drove with a 10 year old car. This went without any problems. The only problem we encountered was when we drove over a sand-road, and we got stuck. Happily after 1,5 hours there was a farmer that could help us to get out (after paying some roubles). I would advise you to use a car in which you can sit a little higher, so you can better view the holes in the road. We even did not encounter any flat tires in 3000 Russian kilometres. Than about the driving habits of Russians: I didn't feel they are driving very dangerously, but I am not an expert. Compared to Poland, the Russians drove very nice and gently, I feel.
Furthermore it is very conveniently to travel through a city via illegal 'taxi's': just pull up your thumb like you are hitchhiking, a car stops, pay some roubles and he will bring you to the right place (as fast as possible).
We used TomTom5 navigation software for eastern europe, which I highly recommend. I do not know if this is legal in Russia, therefore we did not have the device at the windscreen, but lower mounted in the car. At every police check point we removed the Ipaq from its cradle to be sure we wouldn't encounter any problems. Without navigation software it is almost impossible to drive in the big cities, as only very little (or no) signs tell you where you should drive towards. And when you don't speak Russian it is difficult to ask for the road. The tomtom is not as good as in western europe, but it helps a lot. (but it also told us to use the unpaved road where we got stuck, so use maps out of the towns!). Does anyone know btw if these devices are legal now?
Furthermore I would like to know if the route via Ukraine - Jalta - Krasnodar - Moscow - Riga is a good one for a new trip.
If you would like more information from me, please let me know (send mailadress or a posting or something like that).
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I don't know wether it is smart to camp illegaly outside in the nature, but how big is the chance that somebody finds you late in the evening? the farther you are from cities the less people live everywhere. But everywhere you might see Russian Lada's and Wolga's driving around! |
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DITTRICH
WayToRussified
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 429
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: WELL DONE! |
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Excellent post chrisrein.
Welcome to the forum.
It shows what can be achieved by sensible cautious people even thought they don't speak russian.
I have a question about the border at Zilupe...
1 What type of visa were you using - length of validity?
2 How long did you get a temporary import certificate for?
I had hoped to use that route to Moscow this year but sadly a change of job meant no time for the trip.
Best Regards
Les |
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chrisrein
Frequent Guest
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Dittrich,
Actually the border at Zilupe was not such a problem, but when we would have had no help at all from the german person it would have cost something more time...
Your questions:
we had a tourist visum for 30 days, based on a invitation that said we would go to moscow for 30 days, by plane, and visit the red square, the kremlin and arhangelskoe.... The only difference in the visa in the passport is the stamp with the car on it (instead of a plane when entering by plane..)
The temporary import certificate was for 30 days, so as long as our visa. We were very glad that it was longer than some people wrote before at one of these forums at waytorussia.net.
When leaving the country (it only took less than 2 hours) all the papers were taken from us (temporary import document, custom declarations, registration papers etc.) we had no problems at all.
Maybe next time we want to try to go via Ukraine (Jalta or so) to Russia, and if possible to drive to Peking.... But that will probably not be next year... |
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DITTRICH
WayToRussified
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 429
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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chrisrein
Many thanks - good information.
For trip planning try www.horizonsunlimited.com bulletin board "hubb" where lots of useful information. Mainly for people with motorcycles but they tolerate people with cars!
Rgds
Les |
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Rust
Frequent Guest
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Mostly in Moscow
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: Russia by car |
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| If you look at the USA statistic and compare with Russian accident statistic you will see the equal result! Did you try to compare russian drivers style with for exemple Italian drivers? We have bad roads of course sometimes but please dont make us maniacs! I drove cars from Vladivostok to Moscow many times and I can say - be a little more carefull and its all. Our policy afraid conflict with foreigners - its our feature after Petr 1. But dont stay alone for spending the night |
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