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cyndy22 · Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: Russian Consulate Info.

Yesterday I made phone calls, 1st to Russian Embassy in Washington DC and spoke with 2 people who then referred me to Russian Consulate office in New York. The problem I recently became aware of is that my son who is adopted from Russia has dual citizenship, Russia/USA. Alex has valid US passport but his Russian passport has expired. In order for Alex to get visa, I must apply for new Russian passport for him as well as register him with the Consular division of the Russian Federation. This is all well and good however I was quite annoyed when I phoned NY Consulate office this morning to only get recorded messages. I find it incredible that there is no one to speak with! The Washington Russian Embassy website has good information on this topic under adoptions heading, however I was unable to download the application form I need. And even if I was able, The people I spoke with in Washinton told me that I must deal with New York Consulate office because Massachusetts is in their jurisdiction. The Washington embassy website did provide a phone number to contact in NY Consulate's office but only between 2:30 pm to 5pm. Hopefully I can reach them this afternnon and they can mail me correct application. After I complete this process, I think I would like to add a link on WTR visa section for people, especially families who have adopted Russian children. It is not easy after all to get information you need. I really don't think the Consulate's clerks always are informed about these things. There are however thousands of US families who adopt Russian children. I gotta think that many of these families visit Russia with their adopted children, at least I hope so. Families should have easier access to such pertinent information. God help you if you do not have internet access!

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

Why do you want him to have a russian passport? I read a lot of your posts and my impression is that you don't quite understand what russia is about. If I were you, I would not renew his russian passport. First of all, how old is he? I hope Russian army is not something he has to worry about at this time (it's required of Russian citizens to serve in the army).

I feel the best thing to do is for you to renounce his Russian citizenship (there's some convoluted procedure for you to do that). You do it once, and forever and ever he will be able to travel to Russia with an American passport with russian visa in it and never deal with Russian authorities and beauracracy and always have protection of the US consular services while in Russia. Having new russian passport is not going to save you any money or formalities since if you have a Russian passport, you need to live in Russian and have a stamp in your passport indicating that you live in Russia permanently ("propiska"), or you cannot leave Russia. This may sound absurd and it is - but remember, while Russia is changing, there are lots of absurd old regulations that are related to immigration, travel and passport control. And Russia is, sadly, unpredictable. Your son is now an american - don't give him a life-long headache. Let him be ONLY an American.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

Read this: http://stpetersburg.usconsulate.gov/citizen_dual.htm

cyndy22 · Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject:

Mr. Spice,
Thank you for your relpy. I was told by ourRussian/ US travel agent in Boston, that since our son is under age 18, he is not able to renounce his citizenship. However if I manage to speak with NY Consulate's office today, I will double check. I agree it would be more simple if Alex can just be a 7 year old US citizen!

Your post did make me think more deeply about dual citizenship. I do question you as why you do not think I understand Russia so much however. You seem a little paranoid to me, but then again my biggest fear would be to lose my son because of some idiodic national policy etc. It is crazy that things can be so complex and convoluted. I do think Mr. Spice that you are intelligent and seem to have good perspective on things so I do respect your opinion on this important and timely matter. At some point though I would appreciate your clarification re my seemingly misunderstanding of Russian Federation. Smile

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

Here is my clarification: based on many of things you have said on this board, I think (and I may be wrong) and you are somewhat enamored with Russia and Russian culture. Don't get me wrong - this is a good thing and I am glad that there are "real" americans that are interesting in the culture of the country where I was born. But there's a reason why so many people left that country. It's very unstable, even now. I bet there's a way to renounce your son's russian citizenship. You as his mother can make a judgement on his behalf on any decision in his life since he is only 7 and you are his only legal guardian. I just feel that since you have never lived in Russia, you don't realize what Russian beauracracy can do to you. Imagine, for example that your son is not allowed to leave Russian when he shows border exit control his russian passport without "propiska" (perm. residency stamp). It may take you weeks to resolve this issue. I maybe wrong. I hope there are other posts on this issue here and from people that know the details about this kind of situation first-hand.

mister_wizzz · VIP Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 582

renwan · Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 204

Cindy, so you want to intervene in your sons personal life and take away his born nationality and his attachment to his country? disgusting.
Let the kid decide, i would never want to be an american citizen,but that is just me.
I would hate my parents for taking away the citizenship of the country i was born on and raised in exchange for another one.

My advice,keep them both until he is old enough to choose,aka 17 or 18.

Paul-Holmes · Lounge Wizard Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1073

renwan · Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 204

I meant citizenship.
Stills you take away a part of that kid, the only think that connected him to his own country.
It's deplorable in my point of view.

sputnik · Lounge Lizard Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 141

cyndy22:
i might be wrong in the case of russia, but would a dual citizenship really be that bad? your son would not have to travel on his russian passport, but could travel to russia with his american one?

a fellow student of mine in delft, the netherlands, came to my country as political refugee and had a double nationality: croatian and dutch. when travelling to croatia she'd simply leave her croatian passport at home, so that in case of trouble she'd contact the dutch embassy there..

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

I see that people talk about Dutch people, Russian pride and other things unrelated to this post...
First of all, a Russian Citizen cannot leave his Russian passport at home and travel on an American passport because he will not get his visa (unless the passport is old and the Russian embassy/consulate lost those records and the person applying for a visa lies in the visa application). That would make travel to Russia very difficult. People who live in Russia - don't advice Cindy, please, since you are not aware of some facts pertaining to the passport she will get for her son. That passport needs to be "validated" in Russia in order for her son to leave Russia if he travels there. That usually requires "propiska", or permanent residency in Russia. Secondly, the current russian law does not even recognize dual citizenship. Thirdly, American embassy advices American citizens to travel on American passport with foreign visa -- always - in order to avoid immigration problems. There's no reason for Cindy to call American Embassy and ask for advice - there's enough advice on their web site which I referenced in my original response.
Russian embassy requires one to register and extend registration regularly. They like to charge money any chance they get. She adopted this boy to be an American and he will be. There's no practical need for him to have a Russian passort - it will only create problems for him. In 11 years he will be required to serve in Russia Army - that's the law. Any time he goes to Russia as a russian citizen between the ages of 18 and 27, he can be taken to the Russian Army immediately - and if you don't know what Russian Army is, ask someone who served there....

Cindy: I believe that that travel agent that told you that you cannot renounce your son's citizenship is plain wrong. How does she know so much about such a complicated matter? Is she/he an immigration lawyer? The best person seek advice from is an immigration attorney specializing in dealing with foreign adoptions (especially, adoptions from Russia). As a mother of a young child, you should have the right to make just about any decision on his behalf - period.

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject:

Mr. Spice is correct about these things. And please I do not want or especially need any of your judgements re the dual citizen issue. It is surprising just how complicated this issue is. I have not as yet had any luck in getting anywhere, including political connections that I have tried. I will try and consult with an immigration lawyer who specialized in Russian adoptions as well as draft a letter for Paul/Keoki, as well as continue to try and get somewhere with NY or Washington Consuate offices. I suspect that renouncing citizenship will take some time because if it can be done under age 18, it will need to be approved by various depts of govt. in Russia. I do not have the luxury of time since we are booked to go 6/20th. Trip is paid for and no travel insurance!
While ultimately I will probably do what is nesessary to renounce Alex's Russian citizen, right now I simply want to comply with the quickest procedures that Russia requires for Alex to get a visa. I will phone Washington again this afternoon. The adoption division is only open for calls from 2:30 to 5:30 pm. Paul/Keoki I will draft a letter for you both tonight. If you know anyone who can help, please send it to them so that I might get useful information. Thank you Mr. Spice. You have a good understanding of this predicament which is a beaurocratic nightmare. I also value and appreciate other's sincere interests to try and help. But please let this thread stay on topic because I really need help and not your opinions on citizenship, Pride etc.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

Why are you talking your recently adopted 7-year old kid to Russia right now? What is the urgency?

If you got his Russian passport, just use that and if they give you problems on the border, say that you adopted him (have copies of documents with you, preferably translated into Russian as well). Worst comes to worst, they may ask you to pay some fine, which should not be much in dollars. Quite possibly, they will not even say anything and you will have no problems as long as your own documents/visa/registration are in order.

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:28 pm Post subject:

Alex is almost 8 yrs. old. We adopted him as an infant. I have always dreamed of visiting St. Petersburg and our close friends from Estonia returned to Estonia last year. So I decided to combine the visits and uit is something I truly want to do and have paid and made arrangements for.

I don't think your suggestions in this post are possible. We are dealing with a travel agent who has a courier in Washington DC to process ouyr visas. Alex's application for visa was of course rejected. We can't go forward with Alex without a visa for him. No, I think we must follow rules and procedures for getting new Russian passport for Alex. Then visa will be no problem. I am still having no luck reaching anyone at the passport center in DC. i AM GOING TO PHONEW SOME ADOPTION AGENCIES WHO SPECIALIZE IN rUSSIA.

Paul-Holmes · Lounge Wizard Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1073

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