Way to Russia Talk Lounge

cyndy22 · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I drank too much one night a few years ago and got sick. I know my husband loves me bacause he put his hands out for me to puke on! nOW THAT IS LOVE! Laughing

But if I am in a normal state of mind when I get old and can't do much for myself, I agree with Mr. Barley.

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

Even if you are healthy geezer you serve just about zero purpose. Razz

We can debate this. There were very good two movies last year that dealt with euthanasia and they both fueled a very similar discussion in Roger Ebert's Answer Man column: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041226/ANSWERMAN/412260312/1023.

Two, I can understand ending the life of a person in a vegatative state, I can understand ending the life of a person in intense pain but the life of someone perfectly sentient and pain-free? The lives of all of the Ramon Sampedros of the world? Sure, it's his life and he can do whatever he wants with it but this is the death a person of the same mental capability, who's in as normal state of mind as you and me.

And then again if it's your life and you are free to do whatever you want with it why not just permit everyone to kill themselves? Why are only the suicidal who happen to be disabled, ill and elderly allowed to commit suicide? They should be allowed to but the mentally depressed shouldn't? They have an (in most cases) incurable mental disease that makes their life living hell, makes death preferable to their life and yet we send firefighters to wrestle them down from the Brooklyn Bridge? And how about restraining prisoners and Death Row inmates from killing themselves? How in God's name is that fair?

Sorry for this post, I'm in sort of a revere right now.

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

But the death penalty isn't?!If you are absolutlely totally just have to have capital punishment, give the prisoners their razors and shoelaces back and let them die with dignity.It's either both or none.

But every single prison on planet Earth does that, to strip them of their self-respect and humanity.The nook and cranny of every Nazi on trial in Nuremberg was searched for pills from their nose holes to their foreskin.How dehumanizing.If they are going to die, even Hitler's henchmen deserve to die with honor.But Heinrich Himmler anyway outsmarted the Americans and killed himself in his cell (probably hid the pill under his globs of fat Razz

), good for him.

Anyhow back to topic.I have mixed feelings about euthanasia.It's an impossible situation because there is no morally right decision.All you have is two bad choices to pick from.It's not as clear cut as Bush, Micheal Shiavo, advocacy groups or Jesse Jackson would have you believe.

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

The 60th anniversary of WW2 is coming up, the 10th of Rwanda went, both great injustices of the 20th century. When you read about it, your first reaction is extreme anger and "Hang the bastards who did this from the nearest tree" but that's not the answer.It doesn't solve anything.It won't bring you or anyone else peace.

BTW, nothing in Christianity teaches that the death penalty is right.The opposite in fact: "When your enemy strikes you on one cheek, turn the other".Christianity also teaches that war is morally wrong and if you do start one, it better be for a good, good reason, to pay lip service and show respect to other religions and that money is not meant to be kept. So I have no idea what religion it is that Bush practises, you know the one that gives him the right to execute other people, justifies war, teaches hate and makes it right for him to hourde billions.

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

That's not quite fair, e.What about those religious leaders who condoned the war in Iraq?

Cyndy, you are a lucky woman Wink

.Most people wouldn't let their drunk best friend puke on their lawn.

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

They obviously don't know that Christianity (like every major religion other than Islam) abhores and forbids violence.

If it wasn't for faith, wars would happen anyway, it just serves as an excuse.

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Varangian · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:30 am Post subject:

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Varangian

Re-reading posts carefully can be valuable, especially one's own. For instance, "You can't deny that it isn't used for that purpose" has one too many negatives. That's just a quibble, but I still think that the distinction between a religion and a "them" is an important one.

It was good of you to talk about, "how religion is wrongly used", which implies that it might have a correct usage. Re-reading your previous comments. such as "Religion is hypocritical in nature" still leads me to conclude that you were making a blanket condemnation of all religions. But since you now claim that you weren't, I'll take your word for it.

And yes, of course some people use their religion to justify all sorts of violence, and some people are overtly religious in order to make themselves look good, id est, hypocritical.

I suggest that we now allow this thread to die painlessly, and with dignity, unless someone wants to bring it back to the topic of the care of elderly Russians.

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject:

I started this thread and I would like to revert back to the original topic. The discussion about euthasia however made me think more about elderly and young people even whose health is fragile and failing. I gather that the Russian health system is not as aggressive in prolonging these people's lives, such as for example keeping people on ventilators. This probably has to due more with limited resources and technology, but may also have to do with a different philosophy about keeping people alive at all costs. Westernized medicine has somehow adopted this philosphy. Thank God we now have living wills where people can say for example do not resucitate me should I clinically die.

I know very little about health care in Russia. I question the availability of social services such as home health care in Russia. It seems to me that elderly and young people with major health problems or disabilities must rely on family.