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Paul Holmes
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Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 958
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 Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 7:06 am Post subject: Sex Tours- Your views of this Kiev Article |
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| Quote: | The coming summer sex boom
May 04 2005, 20:23
Summer’s on its way to Kyiv, which means mini-skirts and stiletto heels for women and the sex tourism season for too many men. Hordes of Turkish, German, American, French, English, Italian, Swedish and other men will, as they have for years, descend on the country over the next few months in hopes of finding “the right girl” – for marriage, supposedly, but in many cases for a week or a night.
This year however, what with Ukraine’s temporary no-visa regime for European Union citizens, and given Ukraine’s new attractiveness in the wake of the Orange Revolution, there could be more of them than ever. Ukrainian girls are going to get as much as they can handle from foreign guys who can’t meet women in their own countries, or who are just plain looking for what they perceive as easy pickings. That’s a shame, because Ukraine’s status as a hub for woman-crazy foreign men cheapens the social scene here – and cheapens Ukrainian women.
Midweek recently at a Kyiv nightclub, the hordes of foreigners were in full force, grinding on the dance floor with Ukrainian gals clad in their summery best, each guy clumsily trying to lock lips with any girl in the place that would have him. Dance floor conversations floor consisted of monosyllabic grunts and insinuations from the men, and a lot of nonchalant fend-offs from the women. You could hear the men say things like this: “I have only one day left in Ukraine. Let’s go back to my hotel room.” Charming, I’m sure.
A friend in the hotel industry here tells me that 80 percent of the business at her hotel consists of men coming to Ukraine from any number of countries, all looking for sex. That’s anecdotal, but even if the number is a fraction of that, it’s high. And marriage agencies say their business is in decline? That may well be true of the reputable ones, the ones that rigorously screen their clients to make sure they’re not here to exploit Ukrainian women. But others have adapted, and now are running discreet operations with “social” hours so that foreign men can meet Ukrainian women to sleep with. Kyiv has started to sell people on sex tours the way Paris sells people on the Eiffel Tower.
In my opinion, Ukraine is becoming the new Thailand, only it’s cheaper to get to from the West. Consider this: The United Nations Development Program for HIV/AIDS reports that Ukraine has more than 500,000 reported cases of HIV, and the numbers are on the rise each year. Like Thailand, where HIV/AIDS infections have been ravaging younger generations, Ukraine faces an epidemic of this terrible disease. And with education about HIV/AIDS and safe sex in general lacking, especially in comparison to Western countries – and even Thailand – many of the encounters between “sex-pats” and Ukrainian women may result in the proliferation of this dreaded disease.
Trafficking in women is also a notorious problem here, but bad treatment of women goes beyond rounding up rural Ukrainian girls and sending them to brothels in southern Europe or the Middle East. Women are all too often treated like commodities, considered vehicles exclusively for sex, dish-washing, cooking and baby-making. What’s more, Ukrainian women earn less, on average, than their male counterparts, and are often passed over for promotion to high management positions at Ukrainian companies because of sexism. The situation, in other words, is often bad enough without foreign men coming and contributing to it.
The combination of long-standing native social attitudes and the sex tourism industry is doing a number on the mentality of local women. How many times have I heard foreign men who have dated Ukrainian women complain that women here are unknowable? That they’re all greedy and out for money? That they can’t be trusted? Is it possible that these women have simply learned to respond to a world that too often expects little more of them than to smile all the way to the bedroom? If they seem inscrutable, and like they’re out to get something from the men they interact with, that’s likely because they know that guys have an agenda in regard to them, too.
Just the existence of short-term sex tours for men to Ukraine is bad news for women here – an insult to them. Would German men or French men enjoy foreigners coming to their country en masse looking for sex with their sisters, daughters, friends and co-workers? Probably not. They’d be insulted. And yet they, and others, subject Ukrainian women – and Ukraine – to insults that they would never want to put up with themselves.
I write this on a chilly spring day, when the women walking along the street outside my office are all bundled up. Back into the closet, for the moment, with the heels and mini-skirts. Summer, the high sex-tourism season, seems far away, and that feels good.
Paul Miazga is the Post’s senior editor. |
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spartacus
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: |
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What paper is this?
Was thison the opinion page?
For a "Senior Editor" it seemed full of opinion and lacking in anything else. |
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Paul Holmes
VIP
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Kiev POst English Edition. |
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overseas_expat
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 611
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Except for the fact that Russia is considerably harder to get into, I would say that the article author is dead on the money and all the same tawdry sex-pat tourism is thriving in Russia as well.
But one thing confounds me. If Russian/Ukranian girls would prefer not to be seen as cheap sex objects, why do they dress like cheap sex objects? I see so many many girls in skimpy see through outfits, sans underwear--if a girl blithely travels around town looking like that, what does she expect people will think?? Of course she'll be seen as easy and willing. That's clearly the message these girls are telegraphing. For sale or rent: Cheap.
I especially liked the part about "foreign guys who can't meet women in their own countries". So true. How many of these guys have put up posts in these very forums? There are at least several of them active right now. Guys who have to travel thousands of miles to pick up women clearly have had substantial failures at home. So they go where women seem desperate and lascivious, hoping to get something for nothing.
I wouldn't disagree with a single sentence in the article. The author is absolutely right in his entire observation. |
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Paul Holmes
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Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But one thing confounds me. If Russian/Ukranian girls would prefer not to be seen as cheap sex objects, why do they dress like cheap sex objects? I see so many many girls in skimpy see through outfits, sans underwear--if a girl blithely travels around town looking like that, what does she expect people will think?? Of course she'll be seen as easy and willing. That's clearly the message these girls are telegraphing. For sale or rent: Cheap. |
I think he stated that some girls are for sale aka why the high AIDS cases.
Overseas Expat, how many Expats live in Moscow and make it a big party town and brag about booze and women? |
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Vic
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 298
Location: Moscow, Russian Federation
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| overseas_expat wrote: | Except for the fact that Russia is considerably harder to get into, I would say that the article author is dead on the money and all the same tawdry sex-pat tourism is thriving in Russia as well.
But one thing confounds me. If Russian/Ukranian girls would prefer not to be seen as cheap sex objects, why do they dress like cheap sex objects? I see so many many girls in skimpy see through outfits, sans underwear--if a girl blithely travels around town looking like that, what does she expect people will think?? Of course she'll be seen as easy and willing. That's clearly the message these girls are telegraphing. For sale or rent: Cheap.
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Ummm, I would not call dressing well = cheap sex objects. I would not say that sex-tourism is thriving in Russia either. I know plenty of fogeign men that had the idea that here women would "propose to them on the street" but got multiple "Poshel Nahui's" but were "very welcome" in the Ukraine. So you are wrong on this one.
I once again say - in my opinion, girls are much easier in North America. This is from personal experience compared to ones in Russia. I have never been in the Ukraine but people who have (both Russians and Canadians and Americans) pointed out that fact.
Vic |
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mister_wizzz
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Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Vic
Ummm, I would not call dressing well = cheap sex objects.
[/quote]
Yeah right, I even would say :
dressing well = expansive (or very expansive) sex objects.  |
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Vic
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 298
Location: Moscow, Russian Federation
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| mister_wizzz wrote: |
Yeah right, I even would say :
dressing well = expansive (or very expansive) sex objects. |
Nah, I call them women. |
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vorteks
VIP
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 571
Location: European Union
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I read an article some time ago about ukrainian sex professionals offering to adopt a dress code to become easily differenciable from other women while walking in the streets. I wonder if they managed to get organised. |
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overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 611
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Overseas Expat, how many Expats live in Moscow and make it a big party town and brag about booze and women?[/quote]
I couldn't quote you any exact numbers, but my experience here with expat men says--PLENTY. God knows I hear enough of it.....oh yeah. It seems to be the #1 favorite topic of conversation and activity. |
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mediashark
Moderator
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1601
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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I told you damn high-heeled shoes were EVIL!!!   |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I read an article some time ago about ukrainian sex professionals offering to adopt a dress code to become easily differenciable from other women while walking in the streets. I wonder if they managed to get organised. |
They should legalize it like it is in Amsterdam and Brussels and create a red-light district in Kiev and Moscow. Or like in the old-school sex-tourist meccas like Bangkok and Manila and just make one up anyway. At least least they'll leave the rest of the women in the country alone and it can be a nice source of revenue as taxable labor and tourist revenue. |
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El Casey
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Ìåëáóðí, Ôëîðèäà ÑØÀ
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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The article above aside, is AIDS becoming a large problem in Russia, Moscow in particular? While my reasons for coming to Russia are far from any sort of sex-pat tourism, I'm certainly no puritanical prude (despite being an American  ).
Even in the US, disease is something that is always in the back of my mind, but in my mind nonetheless. Lonely Planet (I know, I know) mentioned the official figure was ~30,000 cases, but I know the reliability of Russian "official figures" as well.
I'm sure a quick Google search will yield info, but I don't want alarmist "OMFG! We all have AIDS!" information, nor do I want, "Screw who you want" information, either. |
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Vic
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 298
Location: Moscow, Russian Federation
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Well, I think the figures of aids are actually a bit higher since most of the prostitues here are from Ukraine or Moldova (most - illegally, this not being on any register)
Vic |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Interesting case analysis re: Russia, Sex Tourism and AIDS/STD cases:
http://www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/russsex.htm
And heres what the Ukrainain government plans on doing about it:
| Quote: | # The Ukrainian legislation in the field of tourism requires essential supplementing and utmost adjusting with the international standards. In particular, the Law on Tourism should be adjusted with the existing international agreements and declarations and supplemented with clear references to standards of the civil, administrative and criminal law. It is critical to prevent using the tourist activities as a cover for illegal migration, sex-tourism, contraband-related businesses, and this should be reflected in the Ukrainian legislation.
# Regretfully, despite the fact that both the Program of Tourism Development until 2005 (approved by the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine on June 28, 1997) and the Presidential Decree On Main Guidelines for Development of Tourism in Ukraine until 2010[4] indicate that a priority type of tourism for Ukraine continues to be a foreign one (in-country tourism) as an important factor of hard currency earnings for the state budget and creation of additional jobs, nothing has in fact been done to simplify visa, customs and border-crossing formalities. It especially concerns the most promising trend of development of tourism, i.e. increasing the tourist flows from European countries that are now impeded not only by the low level of services in the Ukrainian tourist industry, but also by the existing numerous entry regulations and formalities |
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