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wwwadim
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 145
Location: Moscow Region, M-7 Highway, Noginsk
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 Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 12:19 am Post subject: |
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As to me late at night before this incident, I have come back home to 11 one o'clock in the evening. By 12-00 I have fallen asleep and have woken up enough late. I have the day off at Wednesday and I did not go to the work. But I was surprised very much why anybody till the dinner has not called me on my cellphone.
I have an electricity all the day around at my home though I live in 25 minutes of driving from Moscow electrcity and the Internet was. By 15-30 colleagues from work could call me and have told about happened in Moscow. I have been extremely surprised to this. At once I turned on the TV and began to listen news, then go in the Internet to find out independent news.
Most of all to me it was remembered, that 20 thousand person has got stuck in trains of the underground depends of switching-off of light. And, probably, but I think, that it is hearings that there could be problems with the Kaluga Atomic power station because of these faults. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 12:49 am Post subject: |
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The power black out was a BIG surprise! I am sure you and everyone in Moscow area were taken by surprise. We all are so used to our telephones, electricity, hot water etc. When these experiences happen, everyone is forced to slow down. I know it is not great but in todaY'S FAST WORLD, I do sometimes feel the need that everyone should slow down.  |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Pretty good article about the California blackout crisis:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/enro-f09.shtml
"On yet another tape provided by SCPUD to prove that Enron was fully aware of the impact of its actions, one Enron trader, speaking about the California energy crisis, callously comments, “Those guys are f***ed.” Just how many accidents, injuries, deaths and other hardships Enron’s criminal practices caused have yet to be tallied." |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Where did you hear about these "injuries, deaths and accidents"? |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Eh, Roger Ebert.  I get half my world news from his website.He was reviewing the movie "The Smartest Guys in the Room" and suggested that people weren't angry enough at Kenneth Lay and his cronies; if it was Al-Queda that blacked out half of California, took 6 billion of the great state of California's money and hurt that many Americans, there'd be an uproar. |
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greg222
VIP
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone else think the Moscow blackout may have been engineered as a plan to bring down Chubais? |
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Camrade
VIP
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 516
Location: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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2greg222
no... Chubais could be brought down without blackout for his crimes.
He should have been under arrest at least since 1998... |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'm hearing reports that the Chechen terrorists are claiming responsibilty for it. Does anybody believe that?
Polska: Trust me from someone who lived here during the thing: nothing bad really happened except for astranomically high electric bills, and lots of and lots of spolied food and melted ice cream. Our system out here is built to withstand all of the tons of natural disasters that we deal with every year. |
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greg222
VIP
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| But Chubais wasn't out of favour with the powers-that-be in 1998. And in light of the mess the Khodorkovsky saga has caused could they afford to take him down without some greater pretext than past misdeeds? I'm not saying the blackout definitely was engineered but it seems to me that Putin was very quick to swoop. Simple opportunism you think? |
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wavetossed
WayToRussified
Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:24 am Post subject: |
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What are these wierd comments about Putin "swooping"?
Chubais himself publicly admitted that his company was responsible for the blackout and that he, himself, as the head of management, accepted full responsibility for the problem. This has nothing to do with Putin and is far, far more than American CEOs have done faced with similar crises.
As far as the inquiry into the affair, that was started by the Moscow "procurator" who is basically the district attorney for Moscow. Nothing different from what the New York DA might do if a grand jury inquiry is called for.
Some people in the west seem to have this wierd idea that Putin is in charge of the Russian government and military-industrial complex. This is ridiculous. He is only the President and his powers are limited by the constitution, the Duma, the Federal Soviet and the various oligarchs, CEOs and regional governors. Note that his power to appoint regional governors does not give him control over their actions any more than the US president's ability to appoint Supreme Court judges gives him control over the US Supreme Court decisions.
Russia is probably a more complex system of checks and balances than the USA. It certainly is not so simple as a dictatorship. Putin is now more-or-less a lame-duck President since he is in his last term. A U.S. president in his last term tries to make sure that he accomplishes his work without stepping on too many toes because he wants his party to win the next election even though he himself will not be a candidate. Putin is in a roughly similar position except that Russia has not yet settled down into a stable set of parties (2 or 3) who share the balance of power. It has only just reformed the Duma so that you must be a member of a political party to take a seat there, using a proportional system similar to that of Australia.
If you get your info from English-language press then you are being held hostage by Russians with an axe to grind who careful feed and spin information by choosing what they will translate and how they translate it. Those of us who can read the Russian press and who follow a variety of sources can clearly see that the English language coverage is heavily bised and often outright lies. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Wavetossed,
As always, you add experience, intelligence, pragmatism and common sense here. Thank God for voices of reason! |
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Camrade
VIP
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 516
Location: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 11:09 am Post subject: |
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2wavetossed
that's right |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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wwwadim, Canada has had at least two memorable power blackouts (or brownout as one was referred to). One was around 5 years ago known as the "The Ice Storm" (which especially hit Quebec). Those were wild days in the cold no less.
The other one happened not too long ago in Summer. It was blamed on a power grid breakdown which originated in the mid-western U.S.
I know that the one in Moscow is being blamed on Chubais and his monopoly of the hydro/power system there. Monopolies are never good. The phone system in Canada is a monopoly. Basically, everything becomes sloppy and poorly administered when things become a monopoly. There's no competition and they don't really care if things go wrong. Who are you going to complain to or switch to? |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we should remember that the Moscow electric grid has been constructed over the course of dozens of years. Most of it was probably designed and built in 50s-60s in the good old soviet time. Chubais can certainly be held paritally responsible, but he is new to this business and probably does not have as much control for his own "yard" as one would think. Large government entities are always poorly managed, even in highly developed countries. The best way to approach situations like that one is to learn what happened and try to make sure it does not happen again. This blame-game that people in Russia seem to enjoy so much is not the best way to approach any problem. |
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