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Positive thinking in Russia Goto page 1, 2  Next

Way to Russia Talk Lounge Forum Index -> Russian Contexts, Myths and Truths

Author	Message
vorteks VIP Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 571 Location: European Union	Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:50 pm    Post subject: Positive thinking in Russia Russians are reknown for their pessimism, especially since the instability induced by the violent changes of the 90s. Putin, in his effort to restore a national pride, took recently the initiative, thru the misnistry of interior, to develoop a militaro patriotic media called SVESDA ( meaning star, like those on the former USSR flag). This tv channel is currently broadcast only in Moscow, but is planned to be develop througout 60 of the 80 russian provinces, and former USSR countries. The government acknowleges the will to strengthen the russian nationalist feeling and claim that the only difference with american medias is that they don t hypocritically hide behind private media lobbies. The media has for the moment very few audience because of its vintage content (boring USSR times broadcasts) and a fairly apathic management. My questions are : Has this plan a chance to succeed in restoring a high level of patriotism in Russia? Can this initiative be interpreted as another step back to the nostalgy of communist tiimes? What do russians think about this new media?
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Camrade VIP Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 516 Location: Санкт-Петербург	Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:50 pm    Post subject: I think that russians lack patriotism but tv channel (Zvezda) is not a right method to recover patriotism....
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init6 WayToRussified Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Москва, Россия	Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Positive thinking in Russia vorteks wrote: The government acknowleges the will to strengthen the russian nationalist feeling and claim that the only difference with american medias is that they don t hypocritically hide behind private media lobbies. I tend to agree with Camrade that this is not the way to "rekindle" Russian patriotism (careful with the word "nationalism" - that's a dangerous concept), BUT the passage quoted above is extremely telling. The current US media (far more than its European counterparts) are de facto government controlled, both in content and personnel. Something gets published that the government doesn't like, whoops, that journalist gets fired. This happened several times and a RIA Novosti journalist actually posed this question to Bush and the Bratislava meeting between him and Putin, regarding, "Why would you criticize Russia for firing journalists for political reasons when it happens in the US as well?" Bush, of course, clumsily evaded the question, but the fact remains. Have a go at this - http://malagigi.cddc.vt.edu/pipermail/lnc/2003-April/007006.html An acquaintance of mine wrote this article detailing why he thinks America is not approaching a fascist state, but already is (this is his work, not mine, and I don't necessarily agree with it) - All Things Old Are New Again.
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mister_wizzz VIP Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 582	Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:11 am    Post subject: I saw today a tv broadcast about this Russian military channel on ARTE, may be you saw the same ? Well, it is quite strange idea, BTW I wonder who could see this TV, young people are more interested in music, dance and meeting each other... Anyway I agree with Camrade, I am not sure it is the best way to recover patriotism, some Russian Nobel prizes would be more efficient.
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wavetossed WayToRussified Joined: 27 Jun 2004 Posts: 339	Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:31 am    Post subject: Are you sure this isn't just a military channel like the USA's armed forces network? The name makes me suspicious because the red star is traditionally the symbol of the Russian military. Soviet military uniforms showed the red star prominently, the armed forces newspaper is named Krasnaya Zvezda (Red Star) and war memorials often have a star above the hammer and sickle. In any case, I think Russkoe Radio does a whole lot more for patriotism than a TV channel could do. When I was travelling on buses last summer in Sverdlovsk and Chelyabinsk oblast' people were invariably listening to Russkoe Radio. This radio channel, also available at http://www.rusradio.ru plays almost exclusively Russian music. There is the occasional turkish song or western pop classic, but 99.5% of the music is Russian. The station motto is Vsyo budet khorosho (Everything will be good) and I think that is there to support people in improving their life and their country instead of waiting for some foreign capitalist miracle to fix things. In today's world, Russians should rightly be proud of the things that their country has accomplished in spite of very trying circumstances. Stalin's madness made the McCarthy era in the USA look like a picnic. And the economic turmoil of the late 80's and 90's in Russia was far worse than America's Nixon era recession and price controls. In spite of all that, Russia has held together and the Soviet culture has proved itself time and time again as various parts of the Soviet bloc undergo peaceful revolutions because these people believe more strongly in democracy than most Westerners. They have not been brought up in a regime of master-servant relationships that still prevails in the west. You really have to visit Russia and get away from the tourist spots to see this. Visit people in their homes. Wander through their cities and marvel at the lack of fences and walls in the areas where most people live. Of course all this is changing now, but the core foundation of communist and collectivist thought is still there in Russia and has now proven itself to be superior to the unfettered capitalism of the Yeltsin years. That doesn't mean that Russia is going back to Soviet times. At the same time as they are inherently closer to democracy in their thinking, ordinary Russians are also more capitalist in their thinking than westerners. They understand the value of a ruble invested and they do invest in numerous ventures far more than westerners do. Why do you think the underground passages are lined with kiosks? This is a country that has an incredibly strong foundation filled with smart skilled people and with access to great resources. All they need to become the number one world power is a bit more organization so that people are generally aligned and working towards common ends. And they will succeed in doing this and they may very well end up creating a new Soviet Union based on the model of the EU except better than the EU. We live in interesting times.
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e VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654	Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject: Quote: Has this plan a chance to succeed in restoring a high level of patriotism in Russia? I agree with Whizz; its superficial things tend to count more for national pride than government attempts. Things like Nobel Peace Prizes, winning the World Cup, the famous exploits of an individual, etc. Military and Economic victories too. I bet if things get better in Chechnya in Russias favor, or the national GDP were to improve, or Russia joining the WTO then national pride will increase. Quote: Can this initiative be interpreted as another step back to the nostalgy of communist tiimes? I think that it has a lot more to do with Putin who was a party official and a member of the KGB as opposed to Elstin and even Ukraine the CIS and the rest of Eastern Europe who seeks to build national pride by forgeting the soviet past and being more western and intergrationist. The same could be said for Belarus and Lukashenko who also was a party member and official and is doing the same thing. Quote: What do russians think about this new media? I guess we'll wait for them to answer that. But on a somewhat related tip, I got this poll from http://www.therussiajournal.com/index.htm?cat=1&type=6&page=3 Quote: What should the Russian government do about the broadcasting industry? 1. Keep complete control of the broadcast industry.. 9.84% 2. Keep its hands off the industry.. 24.12% 3. Get better control of all other forms of media.. 3.28% 4. Get oligarchs out, then open it up to competition.. 40.28% 5. Let foreigners buy stations and improve quality.. 22.48%
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Only Frequent Guest Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 48	Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:33 am    Post subject: Honestly I think they are shooting themselves in a foot with this Zvezda project. Yes, the situation there last time Russians were proud of their military was in 1945 needs to be adressed, but before it could be done draft should be abolished, as for now society's only feelings towards the army are those of mixed pity and resentment. If they want to up prestige of Russian armed forces, they should try and build publicity based on non-military images, e.g. army helps civilians during natural cataclisms, helps to put out forest fires, and the likes. Army is indeed used for this kind of stuff in Russia, and while they still draft they'd be better off at least pretending that that's what they draft for. Another good propaganda move would be Army & team sports: CSKA wasn't such a bad Soviet invention, actually. Perhaps what I am trying to say is that they should try and show the Army as a team of defenders united by goals that benefit society, not as a group of wannabe heros for hire or a system in and of itself. As for the rest of society... There is one good opportunity that I see in the creation of this new channel, and that's, as paradoxically as it might sound, is advertising. Yes, advertising. I'll try to explain what I mean: couple weeks ago, while brousing Russian net for news on what some of my old friends are doing, I found one of them on some professional inerest forum giving an advice to a newbie PR manager looking to create a media attention worthy event to boost his employer's name recognition locally: " host and sponsor an event to help our boys in Chechnya - that's out to get you some positive press". Now I know that in the West this kind of stuff is taken for granted, yet you'd be surprised to learn how uncommon this is in Russia... To me, this Zvezda channel, if managed properly, could be the perfect outlet for connecting interests of private businesses and acting army, and not only both parties involved could benefit from it, but also large parts of society now in contempt of each other could learn to see the opponent on a significantly more humane level.
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Roller Just Starting Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 8 Location: South Australia	Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: I reckon tht the best way to restore national pride is to fund national projects and the like - things that are unique to your country and are an achievement. An example for me would be the Sydney Opera House... it was full of controversy in the day, and many people orginally disliked it, but now it has become a recognisable symbol, and something that is different to other countries. They should be useful to the people though, and maybe a symbol of the future - something big, shiny and new with lots of controversy would work.... On the other hand you can start a war (a common enemy unites the people) but that is costly and undesirable. The better way to do that is to seriously fund the sports (the most patriotic an aussie gets is when watching australia vs. england in a cricket match).
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init6 WayToRussified Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Москва, Россия	Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:21 pm    Post subject: Only, I have to say that I agree with pretty much everything your latest post. The abolition, and enforcement against, the brutal hazing of conscripts in the military would, in my honestly ignorant (about this) opinion, be an excellent start, as well as an overhaul of the entire command structure. Civilian aid projects are indeed the way to get people closer to the army. And not sweeping streets like they do, but infrastructure upgrades, get the combat engineers out there building things, and the like. I know it's expensive, but is it even possible (monetarily) to begin the conversion of the combat troops in Chechnya from a mixed professional/conscript force to an entirely professional, volunteer force that can take the fight to these bastards and defeat them? I know it's almost impossible for a government to get away with using "mercenaries" but is there any way Russia could form a highly-trained, very professional force of anti-terrorist forces around a core cadre of something similar to the French Foreign Legion? Obviously the boys in OMON and army conscripts, alas, just aren't going to do the trick. National pride is important, but is has to be for the right reasons. Mindless nationalism is very dangerous and ultimately self-destructive, although I really don't think Russia is in danger of this, at least at this point. But something needs to be done, I'll have to say that much. Let's just hope that this project is properly managed and achieves the desired effect! *holds up vodka* To the Motherland!
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wavetossed WayToRussified Joined: 27 Jun 2004 Posts: 339	Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:48 pm    Post subject: You guys are idiots! The USA has always operated TV and radio stations broadcasting programming to armed forces personnel both in the USA and elsewhere. And the USA also has something called the Pentagon Channel http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/ Yes, the .MIL means that it is run by the US military. So when the Russian military wins a frequency allocation to do something similar in Russia, somehow it is a bad thing? What do they say about Soviet America again???
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Only Frequent Guest Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 48	Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:08 am    Post subject: Wavetossed, channel is not a bad thing: state of the Russian military is. Feel the difference? Casey, thank you If I am not too confused, you are planning to study in MSU? If you are ever in the old building, faculty of journalism to be exact, say hello to my alma mater from me, will ya? Back to subject: http://www.mosnews.com/interview/2005/04/13/ivanov.shtml I think it answers some of your questions. Can't say it seems perfect to me, but for short term - and 3 years from now *is* a short term - these plans are not bad at all.
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init6 WayToRussified Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Москва, Россия	Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: You're a journalist out of MGU? There's only a handful of people on these forums that ever went to MGU, and even then, I don't think any others are journalists. I'm honestly thinking about Moscow State Institute for Int'l Relations now, but I just have to decide if I want to write about the political process, or be a part of it. One of my major concerns is finding work and getting EU citizenship somehow, while balancing being able to live and work in the RF (I really can't see an advantage to losing my American citizenship to gain Russian citizenship). I'm thinking Estonia, Czech Republic, or perhaps Ukraine (they're poised to join the EU at some point). Anyhow, sorry to get off-topic! PM me if you like, Only.
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wavetossed WayToRussified Joined: 27 Jun 2004 Posts: 339	Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:18 am    Post subject: As far as public relations goes, the military is doing something about that. Haven't you heard of the TV series Soldaty on RenTV now in its 3rd season? You can buy the first two seasons (16 episodes each) on DVD at any major Russian DVD supplier. It's a great program about young guys doing their two years military service. Some comedy, some drama, some nastiness, and even some romance on the side. And a great theme song too! Here is a link to the site for the group Konets Fil'ma with the lyrics (and chords) http://www.filma.net/ju.html By the way Casey, Ukraine is *NOT* poised to join the EU. Ukraine is a member of the CIS and has not applied or been accepted as a candidate member of the EU. Only Bulgaria and Romania are "poised" to join the EU.
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Mogsfan WayToRussified Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 490	Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:46 am    Post subject: The new EU I disagree with wavetossed. If you read a lot about the EU, you will notice the trend and the reality. The EU is trying to expand and INCLUDE former Eastern European and Soviet nations. The Baltics, Ukraine and even Russia will be invited to join the EU at some point in time. The EU needs this expansion and Western style or at least, (I should say) Economic partnership and unison of these European players. They are needed to reform and improve their respective economies in order for the EU nations to compete on an even level with Asian countries and North America. Britain, France and Germany are having major probs as far as I know. They are having political upheavals as the supposed left-leaning governments there are becoming very unpopular and for Germany, the unemployment rate is still at record high levels.
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init6 WayToRussified Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Москва, Россия	Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:29 am    Post subject: wavetossed wrote: By the way Casey, Ukraine is *NOT* poised to join the EU. Ukraine is a member of the CIS and has not applied or been accepted as a candidate member of the EU. Only Bulgaria and Romania are "poised" to join the EU. My comments did not mean they were on the very cusp of EU membership, I meant simply that Ukraine, especially due to Yushchenko's ascension to the presidency, and the "Orange Revolution," meant that they would, perhaps, pursue EU membership. Hell, if the Baltic States are all members, why wouldn't an "EU-friendly" Ukraine pursue it? I, on the other hand, respect Putin's (and "new" Russia's - and I don't mean New Russian's Russia!) choice to maintain a "we're the eastern states, and we don't wish to participate in your western nonsense" stance. I obviously don't believe the EU to be nonsense, but I think the Eastern states have a certain cultural reason for staying out. If nothing else, I hope the IMF and the WTO keep their dirty, corrupt mitts off of Russia. Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" and general info about the IMF/WTO for the reasons why, but on the other hand, I think Europe needs to unite. That does not mean economic liberalization which will completely destroy not only their economies, but their cultural identities. The US needs to keep its big nose out of Russian politics and economic decisions, but there is also room for the CIS/NIS to join Europe in its quest to compete as a continent rather than individual nation states - they can't do that anymore.
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