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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject: Labor Camps Outside Ekaterinburg |
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A friend of mine is an old Polish gentleman who was sent to a camp outside Ekaterinburg courtesy of Uncle Joe in 1939. I expressed an interest in trying to find, at least, the site where the camp was at some point while I was in Russia. I imagine people are still alive in the area who would remember the camp. I'm not really expecting much info from this forum, but if anyone is familiar with the area or has heard about these camps, I'd love the info. He told me that if I could find the camp itself, or find out any new information, that it would be very important to him He's been a good friend of mine for a few years now and I'd like to be able to give him sort of information on the camp when I return next year.
He was in a camp called "Pervoii Kaban," apparently there were three "Kaban" camps in the area. In 1943 they boarded a train for Sverdlovsk, then went through Kazakhstan south into Iran, Afghanistan and India to join the Polish Home Army.
Even a point in the right direction would be supremely appreciated. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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I've got an information update. I was finally able to "interview" the subject for a short time and get the pertinent dates and such out of him.
He was held at "Первый Кабан" after being arrested with the rest of his family on 10 February 1940 (he was 9 at the time). They were transferred to the camp from "Zborow, Poland" which is now Ukrainian. I am not sure if he lived with his parents at the camp. I do not think so, because his father was put to work in a mine some distance away while he attended school at "The First Wild Boar" (which is the translation of Pervyi Kaban. He has mentioned "taking a trip to visit his father" before.
What sort of mines were in the area in 1940-41?
He has also mentioned a train station outside Ekaterinburg called "Vierkhnaya Tura." I'm not spelling it correctly in Russian, because I can't get it to translate, but he said it meant "Higher Tura," perhaps "upper?" This station was where the entire family boarded between June and September 1941 to leave the Soviet Union and join the Polish Home Army being formed, I believe, in Italy (though that sounds wrong because the Germans still controlled all of Italy and Sicily in '41).
After boarding outside Ekaterinburg, they travelled to Chelyabinsk, then on to "Zhurun," which he believes is in Kazakhstan. This is also where his mother, father and sister are buried after dying from cholera on the trip. The train then went from to Tashkent, then through some other towns that could be either Soviet or Iranian. They are Ashkabad, Yangi-Yul and Meshhed (which is believe is in Turkmenistan).
From there he travelled through Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan (same place at the time) to India where he stayed for awhile before going to the UK and on to Canada. I believe he moved to the US some time in the mid-1950s. The only portion I am truly concerned with is between Poland and Zhurun, Kazakhstan. I intend to photograph and write all I can about this, since that's what I'm being paid to do. I doubt I'll get to the right places in Ukraine and Kazakhstan this year, but I'll certainly try.
Any advice on how/who to look up possible guards or Soviet workers in these camps in and around Ekaterinburg? I can't tell you how much I'd love to find someone who worked in "The First Wild Boar!"
Thanks in advance... |
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wavetossed
WayToRussified
Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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You need to learn how to use Google or maybe Rambler...
I quickly found a webpage on Rambler about a cycle trip through the Urals that passed through верхняя тура.
If you go to http://www.rzd.ru/ you can get complete maps of the Russian railway system with all stations on them. They are big graphic images but you can zoom them to 100% and scroll around to find places. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I do use Google. I just used different search terms, mainly because I didn't know how to spell the station name.
Now that it's confirmed that the station still exists, I'm ever closer to finding the camp (or at least the site where it was). As I get deeper into Andrew Meier's "Black Earth" I find out about new organizations. Both "Memorial" and the "Association of Victims of Political Repression" do large amounts of work regarding histories of camp inmates so I imagine contacting them (even in Moscow) will be a good first step.
My particular subject spent hardly more than a year in Russia before heading south, but I know other Poles stayed behind and their children and grandchildren are active in these Russian organizations.
Any advice, Wavetossed, on how to hire a guide, perhaps get in touch with some sort of authority that would be able to take me out to the sites of the former camps? I know you've spent time in Ekaterinburg and I know nothing more than what Lonely Planet tells me (which ain't much). Especially since I'm on a limited budget (I got basically enough commission to cover a return train ticket to Ekaterinburg and maybe hire a guide for a couple days). |
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wavetossed
WayToRussified
Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Guide? Why do you need a guide?
You live in Russia, you speak some Russian. Just go there, meet local people and see what you can find. As long as you have that return train ticket safe, what could go wrong?
By the way, I'm not sure of this but in the TV series, Deti Arbata, on of the characters was sent to a camp somewhere in Siberia and the name Tura sounds vaguely familiar to me. You might want to watch that series. You can buy it from the DVD vendors that line the underground tunnels leading to the metro stations in Moscow. I got mine near Lyubyanka. It was 3 of those 4-in-1 DVDs.
You really need to get out a bit and talk to people. Russians are very friendly contrary to the way they appear on the street.
If you still reall want a guide, then check a map to find the largest town near your destination. I think there might be something closer than E-burg. Almost every town in Russia has an internet portal (or several if it is big enough). These Internet portals almost always have a public forum on them. This is the place to make contact with local people, but I highly recommend that you do not start the conversation by talking about hiring a guide. Ask about the area, the camps. Ask if they know someone with more info. Get an email address or a mobile number and then write to that person. Yes, I said write. Email or text message. It is easier for you if you can take time to write your message and take time to read it. Phone conversations are harder than face-to-face.
A year ago I struggled to carry on the most basic phone conversation. Now, I chat with my girlfriend in Russian for at least an hour a day. And eventually I will disappear from this site because she is in Ukraine and I think she will be THE ONE. I will find out next week when I visit her. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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I asked about a guide because it seems most of the Western journalists I read who've been "on assignment" in Siberia seem to either hire guides or "hitch along" with people going there for some other reason. It's certainly not imperative.
Being an information junkie, I'm always guilty of asking scores of questions and trying to explore every possibility without even having been on the ground.  I have less than 20 days until I will be in Moscow (I'll likely arrive the 25th), so I'll admit I'm still a bit apprehensive. I'm asking all these questions because I really just don't know anyone in Russia yet (I have people I need to meet when I get there, but I don't know them yet).
I'll freely admit that my Russian is incredibly limited at the moment, but the family I'm going to visit in Germany all speak fluent Russian (Dad's German, Mom's Russian, they met at Red Square) - one of the many benefits of Eastern Germany vs. West.  So in that respect, I'm sure my Russian will be vastly improved after spending a week+ surrounded by fluent speakers, even in a "German" environment. I remember enough German to get by, so I'll be asking them to concentrate on speaking Russian around me.
I'll definitely check out that series and any other DVDs I find for cheap (which is all of them in pirate kiosks, no?). Despite my rather shaky beginnings I am confident that I will pick up Russian fairly quickly and being taught grammar and the like intensively in a classroom for half a day, five days a week, coupled with the interaction I'll be getting with native Russians the rest of each day, I'm hopeful to be approaching functionality within a few months. I have a year there.
Anyway, congrats on your relationship working out well, and thanks again for all the advice. |
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UsualSuspect
WayToRussified
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 324
Location: The Land of Oz
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:55 am Post subject: "Gulag" |
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El Casey,
Have you read Applebaum's "Gulag"? Has a map in it of the camp system. I'll have a look at it tonight and see if I can shed some more light for your search...
Usualsuspect |
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