Way to Russia Talk Lounge

cyndy22 · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject:

Rick,
Does Amsterdam have alot of these complexes? It km=ind of blows my mind to associate these buildings with Holland.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

I noticed on my way from Amsterdam to Belgium that the remote areas of Amsterdam don't look very pretty. They are often home to minority groups that often live in poverty and are somewhat segregated from the rest of society. While Holland on paper is a very welcoming and tolerant country, I heard from some Americans living in Holland that most residents there don't really like foreigners and it's quite difficult to assimiate and feel yourself at home in Holland for someone who was not born there.

America is full of buildings that are much uglier and dirtier. There are lots of places in New York, Chicago, detroit and other cities that look terrible. So, in that respect America is not any better.

Rick · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject:

I'm back from the beach..

e won the game. congratulations!! 'because of the little canal'. I would say the canal could have been anywhere as well... I must say i liked wavetossed remark about this area looking so tidy Razz

There were indeed garbage bags flying down these buildings.

It was a much celebrated neighbourhood in the early 1970's and one of the big prides of Dutch functionalist architecture... It became notorious. because of illegal immigrants living in the apartments, because of huge drug problems and crime in the area. Large parts of it have been/will be demolished and replaced by ground-bound housing.

A link in the St. Petersburg forum, to some soviet-time photo's, made me put this on the forum. It was just to demonstrate how international the functionalist movement in architecture was. The principles laid out in the CIAM conferences from the 1930's onwards influenced archiecture worldwide and changed the face of many cities throughout europe. There are less examples like these neighbourhoods to be found at the other side of the atlantic, but they exist...

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

On this side of the Atlantic, housing projects look just terrible. They are so ugly and depressing and breed nothing but crime. Interestingly enough, here in the US they are a result of the same kind of socialism that you see in Europe. This idea that you take money away fom the general public (in form of high taxes) and build housing for poor people for free and they will live there as responsible citizens certainly originates in Europe, but is alive and well in many liberal centers in America like New York City. Ever major elections the candidates compte on how much affordable housing they will build. And that housing looks similar to what you posted on Amsterdam. Every time the govenrment gets involved in planning people's life, you get something that is bad in one way or the other.

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

I apologize for the apparent digression..

My point was really just aimed at e, who seems to jump at any chance of highlighting fantasy racism, using the back up of Mr whizzz's comments when in actuality what whizzz said was:

Rick · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject:

I have split this topic:

The split part of this thread, focussing on tolerance, racism and similar issues can be found in talk lounge in:
http://www.waytorussia.net/TalkLounge/viewtopic.php?p=22518

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

Xela: If we lived in a perfect world, it would be great to help people in need and give them some housing. But that's not how it works once you have the beauracracies in place that have the job of ditributing a product (in this case housing) that is priced well below market price. That encorages brides and corruption and long wait lists that defy the whole purpose. In addition, these large projects become breeding grounds for crime and welfare fraud. That is why Chicago several years ago razed several housing complexes and replaced them with small single and 2-family homes.

http://www.fordfound.org/news/view_news_detail.cfm?news_index=75

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

I would agree in so much as wherever there is money, bureaucracy and government you will find an element of corruption, but just because in this instance the results are more visible(and this only contributes to a small part of the problem), it doesn't mean the entire product should be removed.

It works more than it fails, and for the moment that is the only choice we have.

It is unrealistic and physically unachievable within the next few generations even, to attempt a model of Chicago(a relatively small population) on a global scale, and in any event, the space and resources simply are not there.

With the world's ever rising population, average space per home will continue declining; even for the commercial market, and quick-fix solutions now are going to make small difference to the larger overall problem.