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mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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 Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| init6 wrote: |
But the forced smiles and insincerity of large portions of the West - well, I just don't like it. I have to go with George Carlin on this one. Don't tell me to have a nice day. I'll have a shitty day if I want to, and you can't do anything about it!
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LOL
It reminds me a friend from Spain, each time somebody ask him "How are you ?" He answer : "A ti que te importa ?"
Translation : "What has that got to do with you"  |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:41 am Post subject: |
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While I can understand cultural -differences and for the most part appreciate these differences, as usual in this forum people seem to draw immediate conclusions to the US. Right or wrong.
For the record, I don't think that Americans or for that matter South Americans, Canadians, Africans, Australians etc. have the stereotype that El Casey suggests. A smile, a friendly gesture is in many countries and civilizized societies welcome and non judgemental especially in the sense that many Russians infer.
There is a difference after all between warmth, friendliness, even stranger hospitality than coldness. Think about this- if we are strangers even when we are among the only persons on the street, metro etc., does it seem more natural to avert one's eyes and demeanor or simply acknowledge whether it is by eye contact, smile, a few words, or gesture?
It is not about people living in small towns, farms or citites but respect for humanity. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| By that convoluted logic, Russians in St Petersburg seemed inhumane to you... As someone who lived in Russia for many years I can assure you that Russians, at least in St Petersburg, are rather helpful and warm people. They don't show their warms as much as Americans, especially towards strangers. Also, Russians tend to treat work differently than personal relationships outside work. I.e., someone who works at a store can be cold and unfriendly towards customers, yet very warm and friendly towards friends and neighbors. Work ethic is something that is changing, in some cases slowly. On the other hand, I feel that Americans are in some ways spiled by overly friendly customer service motivated partially by ruthless competition here in the US. The customers here expect to ask 50 questions about virtually everything. There's a russian attitude that you should not ask questions to which you can find answers yourself. I think this attitude is sometimes misguides, but it's another thing to keep in mind. |
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vorteks
VIP
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 571
Location: European Union
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I met quite a few us americans over the 30,000 miles I rode there and can report the bevaviour towards foreigners and the smile service attitude differs widely. From the motorcycle dealer that would call you by your first name in South Carolina as if he knew you for ages to the other one in Alaska that wouldnt smile but let you use his facilities for free to do the repairs...or that photo dealerships in Chicago where the owner more or less was forcing me to buy because i had been bargaining with his seller for half an hour.
The attitude is similarly different in Russia. If you go to a small town, as a foreigner, you are likely to attract more attention and get friendly help, if you are staying in a holidays resort people will be relaxed and friendly, if you are walking in a suburb area with ethnic tensions, the local grocery lady wont be very smiling, unless she has extra services to offer...All in all, everywhere in the world, you shouldn t expect a laid back provincial welcome in busy megalopoles flooded by tourists.
And as usual, people will also respond to your own mood and attitude... |
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voodoo
Just Starting
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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voodoo
Just Starting
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| <deleted. banned user.> |
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Wolfgang
Just Starting
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Albuquerque,NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:36 am Post subject: |
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It goes both ways.
Americans in general dispense casual friendliness much more easily than anyone in Europe, the waitress at the Waffle House calls everyone 'honey', 'darling' and 'sweetie' who orders eggs and toast.....
At least until they pay.
On the other side of the pond, Russians by no means have the market cornered for gruffiness.
My hometown of Vienna, generally considered among the 'charmingest' (sic) places in the world, has more than its' share of rude people who walk around looking like they KNOW the world will end tomorrow.
I cannot count the number of times I've been yelled at by total strangers for no reason, run over by pedestrians who simply did not care who or what they ran into, even punched, also unprovoked and for no reason, on the streets. I am not talking about drunks here, either...Especially juicy are the verbal (and sometimes physical) confrontations between senior citizens over subway/tram/bus seats..... 
In Paris, (France, not Texas or Ohio...), they consider anyone who isn't Parisian and/or whose French does not sound like theirs to be less than human, and do not hide this emotion.
In Italy and Morocco, they might hiss at you (yes, like a cat...) if they want to hit on your girlfriend and you to go away....
Incredible, yes, ridiculous, ya betcha, ineffective, ditto, but rude nonetheless.... 
I think the only nation I have ever visited where everyone (even the customs officials and border guards) seemed to be friendly, was Ireland.
Erin Go Breagh! |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang - The discussion was about the majority of people and general impression the tourists get when the visit russia. Many Europeans don't see a problem, while many Americans notice the perceived lack of friendliness and lack of smiling faces. Obviously, you can get yelled at anywhere and rude people are abound in any country (even in Ireland). |
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gonethesun
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Exeter, NH
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| vorteks wrote: | I met quite a few us americans over the 30,000 miles I rode there and can report the bevaviour towards foreigners and the smile service attitude differs widely. From the motorcycle dealer that would call you by your first name in South Carolina as if he knew you for ages to the other one in Alaska that wouldnt smile but let you use his facilities for free to do the repairs...or that photo dealerships in Chicago where the owner more or less was forcing me to buy because i had been bargaining with his seller for half an hour.
The attitude is similarly different in Russia. If you go to a small town, as a foreigner, you are likely to attract more attention and get friendly help, if you are staying in a holidays resort people will be relaxed and friendly, if you are walking in a suburb area with ethnic tensions, the local grocery lady wont be very smiling, unless she has extra services to offer...All in all, everywhere in the world, you shouldn t expect a laid back provincial welcome in busy megalopoles flooded by tourists.
And as usual, people will also respond to your own mood and attitude... |
I agree, and I also tend to think this whole "Americans smile all the time for no reason; Russians never smile unless it is a momentous occasion" thing is VERY overstated. I just returned from the Moscow/Yaroslavl region and I didnt notice Russians as being less friendly in any way. In fact, I was often pleased with often pleased with the openness with which I was greated and the interesting questions and conversations that came about, particularly once it was clear that I was American (it wasnt ALWAYS 100% obvious; I was mistaken as Russian about 6 times, particularly by older Russians).
One thing that is a bit different, regarding the Metro: I was told by my friends to not joke around on the Metro, that it is better to keep a straight face and look "dignified". That made me think a little bit about the difference in public personas in Russia vs. the US. Once I learned to keep my straight face on the Metro, it was much easier to spot the foreigners also!
Another point: Wait staff in restaurants in the US can be very friendly, and usually it is genuinely so. Some are phonies, but usually those people dont last at the position. If your waiter or waitress is not fairly gregarious and charming, chances are they wont ever enjoy the work, get better tips, and soon will be taking a job doing something else. |
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snoof777
Frequent Guest
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject: ha! |
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you guys sound like a bunch of monday morning arm chair quaterbacks. you should try living here and then you will see that russians smile alot and when they do, its because they mean it. and people are very friendly. i can walk up to ANYONE on the street to ask for directions/help and people ALMOST ALWAYS stop and talk to me and tell me how to get there/where to find it. and to the gruffness of the people in the stores, if you become a frequent visitor to that kiosk/shop/store they will remember you and ask about you and talk to you. i have great service from my local kiosks/shops/magazines because i talk to the people and when i walk down the street the venders stop me and talk to me about my life n their lives. i have lived in my neighborhood now for a year and some so i know most of the people. when i go to the kiosks/shops/stores they will give me service before someone they dont know.
heres a little advice -
dont go to a country and criticize the locals because they dont conform to you idea of how you think they should act and how they arent the same as where-ever you come from.
if you want everything to be the same everywhere you go, you should promote a one world government or corporate culture or something. 
every country has different local norms and you are expected to act according to those norms. thats why we travel, to learn and experiance those little things that make them different.
personally, i think people from the east coast are very rude and not friendly at all. very clique-ish. and boring. its rare to find someone interesting that can actually talk about more than their local bar gossip. as well as being SO PC its sick. |
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linguist
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Another comment on smiling. The photographer at JCPenney photo studio was somewhat distressed when my Russian in-laws refused to smile during their sitting. I found that I also prefer the portraits sans grinning. Since that time I always request that my children try not to smile during sessions. Unfortunately, many photographers disregard my requests and make vigorous attempts to get wide smiles out of them. I never buy school pictures for this reason. At least at the studio I can monitor somewhat. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, most russians do smile when they make pictures. It's just they don't smile when they go about their daily lives, at least not as much as the average Americans. |
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vitalsigns
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 2784
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Come back later ...
Last edited by vitalsigns on Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kesha
Talk Show Host
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 258
Location: Terrapin Station
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:27 am Post subject: |
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I smile because I figure I have a lot to be happy about....and my perception is something I can control.
It doesn't mean I'm insincere, drunk, or insane.
My smile shouldn't irritate anyone any more then their scowl should bother me. |
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manxi
Frequent Guest
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Why don't they smile? I always thought it had something to do with the gold teeth... or maybe it's just the high heels hurting their feet. |
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