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manxi · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: Russians and children

Russians tell me that Russian people love children and that parents' lives revolve around their children.

I find it very strange to reconcile this "love of children" with all the reports I read and documentaries I've seen on the homeless children in Russian towns, the conditions in Russian orphanages. Do Russian people feel no pity or concern about the situation of these children? Don't they feel the need to do something about it?

I was shocked the other night when I watched a documentary on babies/small children in orphanages. The head of one of these places admitted that all children there were under-developed, at least a year behind the age-based average development. Two year olds cannot stand or walk for instance. The women working in these places said the cause was the lack of care and attention the children received. So why the hell don't they pick up the children and give them care and attention?! I was completely shocked watching the way these children were handled.

vitalsigns · Lounge Wizard Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Posts: 2784

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manxi · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject:

I know the conditions they work under but I don't think it is the whole story. There are children in orphanages in many poorer countries who do not exhibit the same results of neglect (I'm thinking for instance of Colombia and Bolivia to name just two).

To use your phrase, if I'm pointing my finger at someone, it is Russian society as a whole. I cannot understand the indifference of the general population towards the situation of these children. Money is not the answer to everything. Even without giving money, people can show an interest in the suffering of others and try to alleviate it. Perhaps there are a huge number of people right across Russia doing just that, but I have never heard anything about it. If there are people taking in foster children at their own expence or going into orphanages to help in some way, or campaigning for improved conditions there, I have never heard of it.

vitalsigns · Lounge Wizard Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Posts: 2784

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cyndy22 · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject:

Manxi,
Yes the problem of unwanted and abandoned children worldwide is a sad commentary about human nature. But Vital Signs is right that it is easier to point fingers than to try and understand the complexities.

My husband and I did adopt a Russian child and it provided me with a greater understanding, empathy and respect for why there are so many Russian orphans, and respect and admiration for the majority of staff working in these orphanages. Trust me- most orphanages in Russia are clean and staffed by very caring and dedicated staff. Yes they are understaffed but that is true with all orphanaghes. And yes many of the children in these orphanages are delayed and again this is true in orphanages in all countries.

Please try to understand that economics is a major factor in why babies are surrendered to hospitals and orphanages in Russia. Sure there are additional factors such as alcohol and drugs etc. But actually I was told that abortion is fairly common in Russia. This is my personal belief but I feel it is a gift and not an easy thing to do to have a child and give it up.

My son's mother was 20 when she had Alex. It was her 2nd baby and she had surrendered the 1st as well. She and her boyfriend were both unemployed. Social services I believe are not as easy to obtain in Russia.

In any case I want you to know that while it of course is sad for any child to be abandoned, surrendered and entrusted to strangers, there are some wonderful outcomes. My son is one. I will always be grateful to his biological parents and all of the people we saw and dealt with in the orphanage, and legal system in Russia for enabling my husband and myself to adopt this beautiful child who is the light of our life..

Joe-Anthony · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:03 am Post subject:

Well said Cindy, and very touching.

I did not see the television program to which you are referring, Manxi. But I did watch a program that focused on the children living in the train stations (or perhaps referred to as "metros") in Moscow. Tragic.

However, we do have an analogous situation in the United States. There are people living underground in New York. These people, adults and children alike, live in abandoned train tunnels and service corridors. I read a book entitled "The Mole People," which put their plight in perspective once I personally observed these people.

It seems that there are numerous shelters in New York, but they are often more dangerous than living in the tunnels. Violent crimes such as aggravated assault and sexual assault are commonplace. So, people seek shelter underground.

We have not solved a similar situation in the U.S., and funding is more readily available here.

Food for thought.

Take care,

Joe

cyndy22 · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:47 am Post subject:

Thank you Joe for bringing your empathy and understanding of this problem. I wish it was first of all not this way, but secondly I wish adoption and this inc;udes domestic and international adoption was not such an enterprising business where many people seemingly have their hands out.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

I think money is not everything indeed. But the economic and social tubulence that Russia has experienced in the last 15 years can certainly be blamed at least partially for the problem. You cannot compare Russia to Bolivia because in Russia the whole structure of govenment, the sceleton of the state has been demolished almost overnight. Many people were completely unprepared for rough/unihibited capitalism, corruption, sudden demise of the state and social services and the social net they are so used to having. I think it's difficult for someone living in the developed country to comprehend the extent to which the life in Russia has changed in the last 20 years.

camarks · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:26 am Post subject:

There is no doubt in my mind that overall attitudes towards children are better in Russia than in the US. Experiences with my six-year-old daughter (adopted from Murmansk in April 2004) while visiting Russia earlier this year and during the whole adoption process contribute to this feeling. These experiences range from her healthcare at the orphanage, visiting and playing with other Russian children at home and at school, to riding the Moscow metro with her and many other encounters during my six visits all over Russian during the past three years. I think the orphanage system is better overall than the foster care system we have in the US. Noone works in an orphanage in Russia for the money, but numerous foster children in the US have a roof over there head only because they come with a monthly check. That being said, there are certainly orphanages that lack the resources to take care of the children the way they would like to. I have heard about the documentary to which you refer, but have not been able to see it myself. However, I suspect that it is like many of the news magazine documentaries we have in the US; that is to say sensational and far from representative of the true situation.

Chris

mediashark · Moderator Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 1599

On sunday, me and bunch of expats visited an orphanage for disabled kids to drop off a truckload of donations, and this orphanage was well taken-care of. They had sponsors, the place was very clean and tidy, staff very welcoming and the kids are doing things to make their orphanage feel like home. However as our charity organization is just starting up, we felt that there were some less privilaged orphanages out there that we would want to reach out too. Visiting this orphanage was an encouraging step. There was more encouragement than the time some orphanages whom we spoke to said "we don't need your help." or didn't want to accept donations.

For more information on The Expat Charity Organization (ECHO) and donations please see http://expat.ru/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=104

manxi · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:41 am Post subject:

Interesting replies there thanks.

Is it true that Russian girls are brought up to serve Russian boys Shocked

and that Russian boys have to give flowers to girls on Women's Day to thank them for being the future mothers of their children? In a way I find the second idea sweet but it all seems a little retro to me!

manxi · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:19 am Post subject:

Cyndy and Camarks, do your children speak Russian? Cyndy, I think your son was adopted as a baby, Camarks your child must have been speaking Russian at the time of adoption. Are they bilingual now and do they or you have any contact to the birth parents?

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:21 pm Post subject:

Manxi,
Alex knows a few Russian words and phrases and that is all. I brought him to a Russian school at Smith College last year but he showed no interest. I do not believe in forcing him to learn Russian. On the other hand, I continue to expose him to Russian culture including the language. At some point he may show more interest. Every child is different.

We have never met or had any contact with my son's birth parents. I do have their names and address, (assuming they still live at that address). I think sometimes of writing to her to tell her that her child has a good life, that he is healthy, happy and loved, etc. I would love to share photos with her and for her to send us photos. This is a very sensitive subject however and I think if Alex begins to have questions, then it is the time to make contact.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

cyndy22 - If I were you, I would probably not even tell him about all this until he is grown. What is the point of telling this to a child. Let him have a regular/normal life and think of you as his parents. No wonder he shows no interest in Russian culture - he was brought here as a small boy. He is only russian by blood and birth. He is really growing up to be an American in all respects. Many russian immigrants that came to the US when they were 5 or 7 don't show any interest in Russian culture either even though they have russian parents. I would think that learning foreign languages including Russian is good for any child and any individual. The more he knows the better. There's lots of good literature written in Russian (as well as in Spanish and French and other languages). If he can read some of it in the original language, that would be good for him. I read somewhere that research has shown that children that are tought several foreign languages outperform outher kids in other disciplines and usually gorw to be highly educated and successful.

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject:

Mr. Spice,
Research on adoption has shown that it is healthiest for a child to know at an early age thats/he was adopted. Of course children that are 3 and 4 years old are really not going to understand that much about adoption. Simple explanations are all that is necessary. But it is important to talk to children as they grow and mature. The important thing is to help the child understand and normalize it so to speak. Adoption is not a terrible thing and the stigma of being adopted fortunately has decreased at least in the US.

Adopted children as they get older do have questions and each child is different in terms of how much they are interested in knowing. Alex is just beginning to ask occassional questions. He understands that he is Russian, was adopted by us when he was a baby, that his mother did not have much money and could not take care of him. He is proud that he is Russian. He tells me that the reason he is so smart and healthy is because Russians are smart and healthy!

While Alex has a good self image etc., like many adoptive children he has some issues with attachment and separation.

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