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manxi
Frequent Guest
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Berlin
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 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Why so touchy? |
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It seems to me that people take offence very easily on this forum. It's a great forum to learn about Russia and I think it's well set up and well run. However, I am surprised that whenever anyone writes something criticising some aspect of Russian life, the response is very strong.
I've been wondering why this should be so. For instance, I'm from the UK, I think on the whole it is a good country with decent people but I know it isn't perfect and I don't really enjoy hearing criticism of my country but it doesn't bother me that much. Germans are forever telling me how bad the cooking is in England which probably is true of restaurants. German restaurants are cheaper and better. But my mother was a wonderful cook and it hurts when people say English people cannot cook, I feel like jumping in to defend my mother's cooking! But there isn't really any need to take those kind of comments so personally.
If people cannot express criticisms of Russia or Russian people or Russian life on this forum, then we're just a group of yes-men and it isn't real. Personally I find the negative comments as helpful as the positive ones because it gives you a more balanced view of what to expect. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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You have every right and ability to criticise Russia in this forum. But what some people don't seem to understand is that not all of us will agree with said criticism.
I'm an American - I'm extremely critical of America right now, because there are serious problems. The problems aren't so much the issue with me as is the utter denial that these problems exist by most Americans.
I criticise Russian policies. I defend others. Bottom line, say what you feel on here. Some will agree, some will disagree. But say it anyway. That's what it's here for!  |
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vitalsigns
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 2784
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Why so touchy? |
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Annual cleaning
Last edited by vitalsigns on Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Joe-Anthony
Just Starting
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 3
Location: New Braunfels, TX
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Why so touchy? |
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| manxi wrote: | | It seems to me that people take offence very easily on this forum. It's a great forum to learn about Russia and I think it's well set up and well run. However, I am surprised that whenever anyone writes something criticising some aspect of Russian life, the response is very strong. |
I think part of the problem, Manxi, is that all of us tend to view other cultures and countries through an ethnocentric perspective. We judge and view others and their way of life by comparing them to our own. This is a perfectly natural response, but invarably results in an unfair and biased comparison. In essence, we compare "apples to oranges."
In addition, I have often read on this forum posts that are based on rumor and are not based on fact. For example, the entire discussion on "Russian Women" and "Russian Men." Guests often post questions that are based on rumors and myths. Not necessarily with the intent to hurt other's feelings, but doing so just the same. As I read the posts, I imagine if I were a Russian man I would be insulted as well.
I understand that someone who has no knowledge of another's culture may ask questions based on "what they have heard." That is a natural response. How the question is asked, as vitalsigns stated, is paramount.
Along those lines, we react in the same fashion to statements that are critical of our countries.
Init6 states "I'm an American - I'm extremely critical of America right now, because there are serious problems. The problems aren't so much the issue with me as is the utter denial that these problems exist by most Americans."
I have read init6's posts and agree with most of them, except where the United States is concerned. In my point of view, as a citizen and resident of the United States and thus applying my own ethnocentric view, do not agree with this statement. The views that are currently being expressed by our government are a product of the current majority political party. In the last election, the Republican Party experienced the most comprehensive victory in it's history.
As a conservative Republican myself, I observe that my political party is conducting business in accord with it's stated position. No suprises there. But, if there is a majority party enacting legislation, diplomatic posture, etc. in accord with it's views, there is a minority party that is critical of it's actions.
Although I do not agree with init6's opinion, as the saying goes - I would defend to the death his right to express it.
In sum, I agree with vitalsigns. Expression of criticism through an ethnocentric view will often cause ire. But, expression of criticism based on rumors and myths will cause hurt feelings.
(Long answer to a short question - Sorry!) |
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Kerensky
Frequent Guest
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Quebec City, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Manxi raises an interesting point. I have also noticed that some people here tend to defend Russia no matter what. Seemingly, Russia/Russians can do no harm. It reminds me of the single-mindedness displayed by most activist groups.
However, I have been reading this forum for the past two years and what bothers me even more is condescending attitude of certain regulars towards "ignorant" posters.
Just last week, some poor soul wanting to know about the "Mafia headquarters" in Moscow was fed one hell of a cock and bull story. Then there was the time that someone suggested bringing toilet paper to Russia as a nice gift for native Russians.  And although I'm not certain, I'm pretty sure that many people made fun of all the newbies who wanted to know how to drive to Russia from the US.
While some people might believe that these individuals should know better than to ask such questions, I was always taught in school that the only stupid question was the one not asked.
I am grateful to this message board because more often than not the information and recommendations that it contains are both valid and useful. However, when people make fun of individuals who are only trying to add to their (very limited) knowledge of Russia, it reminds me of fifth graders laughing at the stupid kid in class.
Just my opinion  |
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Rick
Moderator
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 854
Location: Касабланка
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Maybe we go to far in it sometimes. Though i would not consider the reactions on the Mafia HQ that damaging. A bit of fun on a question like the Mafia one should not be outlawed. We can assume visitors to the forum are mature enough to read inbetween the lines.
Personally i don't mind the dumb questions. It's the questions that show that people took no time whatsoever to read on the site and look at the forum for similar issues that are annoying.
The database of the forum now represents quite an account of knowledge and travel experience. If people who are doing research for their trip to Russia are unwilling to use it, why should they expect the regular posters to sacrifice their time in answering their questions? |
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Kerensky
Frequent Guest
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Quebec City, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If people who are doing research for their trip to Russia are unwilling to use it, why should they expect the regular posters to sacrifice their time in answering their questions? |
Well, if you're willing to sacrifice your time to laugh at them, why not just spend the same time helping them?
Some people are lazy and will always be lazy. They won't bother reading old posts and it's not by feeding them incorrect information that you're going to change their ways. They will most likely have one of these three reactions :
1) They will believe everything you wrote, repeat it, thereby misinforming others or looking very dumb.
2) They will realize that you're making fun of them and end up being hurt.
3) They will realize that you're making fun of them and hesitate to ask other questions because they will fear looking stupid again. (Why do you think so few students ask questions in class?!)
Perhaps this bothers me a lot because I am a very gullible person. If it weren't for my "academic" knowledge, I would believe just about everything written on this message board. Why? Because it's well written and seems serious, and I think that when most people ask for help, they are inclined to believe that those helping them are actually helping them.
Everyone here seems nice enough. I don't think anyone is intentionally being mean, but just look at it though the other guy's point of view. Not everyone is lucky enough to have your level of knowledge. And though you could argue that in this day and age ignorance is voluntary, failing to educate when given the opportunity is even more inexcusable (in my opinion). |
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vitalsigns
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 2784
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Annual cleaning
Last edited by vitalsigns on Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rick
Moderator
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 854
Location: Касабланка
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Still.. i would advice anyone who asks such a question to:
1- Consider playing less computer games
2- NOT leave their hotel room once they are in Russia
3- On second thought: NOT leave their home at all, whereever they live
I am not patient enough to educate people.
Last edited by Rick on Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mediashark
Moderator
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1599
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| vitalsigns wrote: | The way it should be:
"Exuse me, is there Mafia HQ in Russia and where is it located?" - asks the forum's visitor.
"Sir, thank you for asking this profound and intellectually stimulating question." - says Rick. "I am sure that you were an A student in your school. You seem to be very knowledgeable of this subject. We discussed this issue with the WTR staff and wanted to let you know that there's no Mafia HQ in Russia. If you are not satisfied with our answer, please feel free to complain."
Wanting only to uplift you and build you up, sincerely Rick. |
You know, it might just work...  |
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voodoo
Just Starting
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| <banned user: deleted> |
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gonethesun
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Exeter, NH
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Why so touchy? |
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| Joe Anthony wrote: | The views that are currently being expressed by our government are a product of the current majority political party. In the last election, the Republican Party experienced the most comprehensive victory in it's history.
As a conservative Republican myself, I observe that my political party is conducting business in accord with it's stated position. No suprises there. But, if there is a majority party enacting legislation, diplomatic posture, etc. in accord with it's views, there is a minority party that is critical of it's actions. |
Hmmm ... I wouldn't say that spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave is Republican's "conducting business in accord with it's stated position". But I won't render any further opinion on that point, as it would likely drag this thread in another direction.
I find that you can criticize your own country, but when others do it ... it tends to be rather ham-handed or expressed in ways that produce strong responses. For instance, it would be easy for me to criticize George Bush and his policies with another American. However, when speaking with Russians I find myself defending Bush from various strange accusations, such as "he is stupid" ... "he is an alcoholic" ... "he is trying to steal oil" etc. For a president with as many faults as Bush, it amazes me that Russians would come up with such primitive and easily dismissed impressions.
I am sure that American remarks regarding Russia sound similarly crude and unjustified. And they are sure to provoke a strong response. Undoubtedly this response is even justified given the primitive nature of some characterizations we might have about their country. |
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