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For you peeps who think that Russians are racists... Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Way to Russia Talk Lounge Forum Index -> Russian Contexts, Myths and Truths

Author	Message
mediashark Moderator Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 1599	Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject: For you peeps who think that Russians are racists... ...actually it's YOU who are racist!!! Russia doesn't need tourists or visitors like you who think that way of them. So please, with all due respect, stay at home. There now I've finally said. I feel much better.
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MrSpice Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431	Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:31 pm    Post subject: mediashark: As someone who lived in Russia I can confirm that Russians are much less tolerant of other ethnic groups and nationalities. The mistake many perspective tourists make is that they think it may affect them. It's not an active racism where someone who is not russian and has darker skin has to be afraid for his/her life. There are some really small number of skinheads, but this is an abberation. Most people, especially those visiting for a realtively short period of time won't even notice any kind of racism. However, deep inside, passive racism and chauvinism does exist and is realtively widespread. Someone who is not russian and lives in Russia for a long time, may feel that and experience it. It's not likely to be violent or in a way one sees some crazy hate groups on TV, but may manifest itself with certain remarks or how people treat you once they know they are not actually russian. I lived in Russia for more than 20 years. I know it first hand...
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mediashark Moderator Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 1599	Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: RACIST! Ok who's next?
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MrSpice Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431	Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject: 1) I am not racist 2) Most people who are non-russian and experience discrimination are actually white as well. So, there's not much racism per say. But one can hear a lot of deragatory comments about jews, ukrainians, asians, anyone from the Kaukaz, anyone from southern russian provinces, etc. You can also see it if you follow russian politics. I am not talking about right-wing groups as much. But even some mainstream polititians make those kinds of remarks.
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vorteks VIP Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 571 Location: European Union	Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: Having witnessed riots between different RUSSIAN communities in Miass, 2 steps away from an army veterans sanatorium, I can confirm the idealistic sovietic international communist model of integration didn t fit reality and its inheritage left high ethnic tensions.
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gonethesun Frequent Guest Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 41 Location: Exeter, NH	Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: For you peeps who think that Russians are racists... mediashark wrote: ...actually it's YOU who are racist!!! Russia doesn't need tourists or visitors like you who think that way of them. So please, with all due respect, stay at home. There now I've finally said. I feel much better. Actually, I think Russians and most Europeans have a very poor understanding of what things Americans hear, see, or believe to be racist. Behavior that you might see as normal or acceptable ... can be seen as blatantly racist in the US. I have seen and spoken with countless Russians who would make remarks like "what do you expect, he is Jewish" or who look at a person and decide that they are a foreigner or a Jew or a Georgian or an Armenian, etc. I've had conversations with Russians about what they consider to be typical "Jewish" features or "Armenian" behaviors. I was really shocked to learn that Jews should be considered to have big noses, big ears, big eyes, blah blah blah. Europeans are often the same, I have a dear friend in London who went on a rant to me one time about how "all Irishmen are lazy drunks ... oh, but don't get me wrong, I love the Irish, some of them are my best friends". Substitute "Black" for "Irish" and this is as bad as anything ever launched out of Archie Bunker's mouth. Much of the recent problems in France are a result of their long-term racist behavior. Germany is the same, there are generations of people born in that country that can not attain citizenship. "Turks" and "gypsy" are code-words for anyone with dark-skin whom they dont particularly like the looks of ... All of this stuff is pretty shocking to most Americans. You might not believe it, but the vast majority of Americans are pretty accepting of people of other races and religions (in fact, most Americans would be surprised that Jews would be called 'a race' by many Russians). And beyond that, Americans tend to be idealists. Even if we recognize there can be race problems here, our government and our better people often take steps to change that. We have it in our constitution that "All Men Are Created Equal..." and these rights are guaranteed ... most Americans believe in this VERY strongly. I am sure Russians aren't aware of affirmitive action in the US ... how a certain percentage of government spending MUST be awarded to minority or women owned businesses, for instance. Can you imagine if 10% of all Russian government contracts had to be awarded to Chechen, Armenian, Georgian, Tatar, or women owned businesses?! While it might seem like common sense to a Russian or Russian police officer to stop and question a muslim woman wearing all black and a veil who walks into a Metro station ... such things here are widely regarded as "racial profiling" and can lead to huge newspaper headlines, lawsuits, and a police officer losing their job. And yet, it still happens here ... DWB (driving while Black) is a common complaint among Black minorities regarding police officers here. Sometimes this complaint is used even to attempt to escape prosecution when the stop was legitimate (speeding or faulty equipment). One of the things I enjoy most about visting Russia and learning about the country, culture, and language is the way that it gives me a different perspective on my own country. Learning about Russia is a challenge in its own right, but seeing things through anothers eyes can be equally rewarding. Last note: I say the majority of Americans are very accepting, but there are groups of shockingly racist people here also ... from skinheads to the KKK. Part of having free speech as a right is hearing from the less tolerant of the world as well.
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Keoki Lounge Lizard Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 117 Location: Moscow	Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: Moi Dve Kopeyki My Two Cents: Racists, unfortunately, are everywhere, not just in Russia. Here, however, it's more acceptable to voice discriminatory opinions than in most countries. Thank you, this has been My Two Cents.
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Crabman WayToRussified Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 401 Location: Middlesex	Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:18 pm    Post subject: 2mediashark: What set you off? 2gonethesun: I am inclined to agree with what you said. Two questions and a nit-picking comment: Who is (was?) Archie Bunker? KKK?? Kennedy-Kerry-Klan? "All men are created equal", rather than being in your constitution, was a line from that ill-considered, antiestablishment document that libeled and said the most unpleasant things about your rightful king, penned by that radical malcontent, Thomas Jefferson.
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mediashark Moderator Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 1599	Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:24 pm    Post subject: crabman--welcome back! I am feeling VERY crabby (excuse the pun) these days. I am working my a-- off in my office, and at the same time I have to babysit grown adults who think they are experienced travellers but freak when they know they're not going to be pampered tourists.
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Keoki Lounge Lizard Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 117 Location: Moscow	Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:31 pm    Post subject: mediashark wrote: crabman--welcome back! I am feeling VERY crabby (excuse the pun) these days. I am working my a-- off in my office, and at the same time I have to babysit grown adults who think they are experienced travellers but freak when they know they're not going to be pampered tourists. Sorry to hear about your a--, Mediashark. Usually you're so cheerful, too. Anything we can do to help?
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gonethesun Frequent Guest Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 41 Location: Exeter, NH	Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:08 am    Post subject: Crabman wrote: 2mediashark: What set you off? 2gonethesun: I am inclined to agree with what you said. Two questions and a nit-picking comment: Who is (was?) Archie Bunker? KKK?? Kennedy-Kerry-Klan? "All men are created equal", rather than being in your constitution, was a line from that ill-considered, antiestablishment document that libeled and said the most unpleasant things about your rightful king, penned by that radical malcontent, Thomas Jefferson. Actually equal rights is in the Constitution ... as well as the Declaration of Independence (which was not solely authored by Thomas Jefferson, although he was the a chief contributor). The Declaration of Independence cites specifically "All Men Created Equal" (and you were correct to point that out, of course) .. the Constitution spells out those rights, and amendments have been added to it to ensure it for men and women of any race, religion, creed. I wouldn't consider Jefferson such a malcontent though, more like a gentleman-philosopher-statesman .... those Adams boys were real rabble rousers. I'm a bit surprised you dont know who Archie Bunker is/was. Perhaps you remember "Till Death Do Us Part"? It was adapted and imported to the US ... into the long running series "All in the Family". The head of the household, Archie Bunker ... was a rather blunt and racist New Yorker ... type of man who believed his wife should have dinner ready for him when he comes home, that nobody sits in his favorite chair, etc. It was on TV from 1971 to 1983 and rather popularly satirized such behavior. Rob Reiner (director of movies like "When Harry Met Sally" and many other great movies) played his 'meathead' son-in-law who was sort of a progressive hippy-type who often argued with Archie and was shocked at his bigotry and ignorance. KKK is the "Ku Klux Klan" ... a southern, "christian" men's movement formed after the US Civil War by Conderate Army veterans who sought to put down freed slaves and intimidate northerners who came south to 'assist' in reconstruction (ie Carpetbaggers). White robes and white pointed hoods, burning crosses on peoples lawns, other such behaviors. I'm sure you've seen them portrayed in various movies. Sort of skinheads before their was Nazism. They still exist, of course.
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vorteks VIP Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 571 Location: European Union	Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:12 pm    Post subject: Crabman wrote: Much of the recent problems in France are a result of their long-term racist behavior. One which personal experience do you base such a self assured simplistic diagnosis. Watching CNN?
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MrSpice Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431	Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: vorteks: One does not have to just watch TV to know that France has a serious problem with racism and how the government and the majority treat ethnic minorities. In addition, the economic systems favors those who already have jobs making it unprofitable for the companies to create new jobs for the new immigrants. There were some independent studies done where they sent the resume with the same qualifications to different companies in Paris. Those with muslim-sounding names got virtually no responses. In some of those suburbs where riots happened, the unemployment rate among young people reaches 40%.
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Crabman WayToRussified Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 401 Location: Middlesex	Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:22 pm    Post subject: vorteks wrote: Crabman wrote: Much of the recent problems in France are a result of their long-term racist behavior. One which personal experience do you base such a self assured simplistic diagnosis. Watching CNN? Errrr, Vorteks, open your eyes (wide). I never said that. I do, however, agree with it. To deny the assertion that France (and many other nations) have their own problems with racism is quite absurd. From reading what little I can understand of most of your posts, I imagine that your opinion is that the Americans are somehow behind the recent civil strife in France.
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Crabman WayToRussified Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 401 Location: Middlesex	Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: mediashark wrote: crabman--welcome back! Thanks! Your avatar changed. I kind of miss the Dilbert woman (I can't recall the name). Funny how people tend to think of forum members as being (or at least resembling) their avatar. By the way, I had never heard of Dilbert until you explained who the character was. Within a week I was in an American bookstore and saw an anthology of Dilbert strips. I bought it for my kids, but I think I ended up enjoying it more than they (I couldn't put it down). gonethesun wrote: I'm a bit surprised you dont know who Archie Bunker is/was. Perhaps you remember "Till Death Do Us Part"? It was adapted and imported to the US ... into the long running series "All in the Family". The head of the household, Archie Bunker I AM quite the dunce. I remember both shows. I guess I never knew that the husband's name was Archie. gonethesun wrote: ...those Adams boys were real rabble rousers. At least one of them made (makes, rather) pretty good beer! With regard to the rest of your post, I would add that in Britain, school children are taught of the American Constitution and the Declaration of Independence as being among the great documents of human liberty (it is usual taught about the time that children learn of Magna Carta). And yes, I do believe that the majority of Americans (and Brits, hopefully) believe what is contained in them. You hear more about the problems in America because Americans tend to wash their laundry in public. I was going to say that this is in contrast to most other countries (but I guess I don't want to attract the flames... this group seems to be "on edge" at the moment).
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