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darthvader
WayToRussified
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 427
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 Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| jo jo 7 wrote: | | MrSpice wrote: | | I would like to add that very few Americans agree with the policiies of our president now. In fact, the congress and senate got new leadership this time around, and Bush's approval ratings are in the low 30s. |
As of this morning 70% of Americans disagree with Bush and this war....  |
Honestly, what Americans REALLY don't like is the lack of tangible "success." The USA gave the Iraqis a shot at bettering themselves (post-Saddam), but old hatreds die hard and Sunni and Shia would sooner annihilate each other rather than improving their country.
Subsequently, American efforts now at "peace keeping" are seeming to be wasted. Well, at least according to the media. Oh, and there hasn't been a lot of pro-US media around for the last 30 years (in the West). Yes, Russians, believe me.
That's right, the USA is "not" at war with Iraq now. The Iraqi government are allied to the USA. The US won the war ages ago (easily). "Peace keeping" now is the problem.
No post-WW2, democratic Japanese and West Germany success story here in Iraq. Barbarians can't better themselves. So, of course the US public is disgusted with this fact, and quite adverse to "staying the course". |
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SPQR
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know that Iraq was ever going to bear much resemblance to West Germany or Japan post-WW2. Both of those countries had relatively homogenous populations, while Iraq is deeply divided between its three major groups. The Sunnis have always ruled the place (until very recently) and you can bet that the Shias resent that enormously, and now that the Shias have power they're settling some scores. |
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darthvader
WayToRussified
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| SPQR wrote: | | I don't know that Iraq was ever going to bear much resemblance to West Germany or Japan post-WW2. Both of those countries had relatively homogenous populations, while Iraq is deeply divided between its three major groups. The Sunnis have always ruled the place (until very recently) and you can bet that the Shias resent that enormously, and now that the Shias have power they're settling some scores. |
Exactly, SPQR. But, at least all those that prescribe to the new religion of anti-Amercanism, can still blame the Yanks for all these problems too
(Guess what! If Saddam was finally toppled in a coup, its highly likely that the same sectarian violence would still occur).
Of course things were much better under Uncle Saddam who was only responsible for the untimely deaths of up to 2 million people (through purges and warfare). But, since Saddam didn't allow foreign media into his country to regularly interview his death squads, repressed Kurds and Shia, how was the world supposed to know this?
So, best stick to 20 minutes a night of the USA's latest blunders on the nightly news services (concerning anything!).  At least media can get free access to the most open democracy on earth.  And, after a while (like now), the world will forget any other problems exist in the world, because only USA causes the problems.
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starryeyed346
Frequent Guest
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: |
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russians dont bother me at all.
im only 18 tho, and i cant speak on behalf of the rest of my country, but i can speak on experience.
i am dating a lovely russian boy, and through him, i have been seriously cultured, lol. i have met all his russian friends, it'll be like... 10 russians and then lil ol' american me, and sometimes they go on russian tangents and i cant understand. but for the most part we get along great. my parents love him and his russian-ness.... everyone i know who has met him is so intrigued and curious. we've all asked questions and listened intently and learned from egor, my beaux. very open-minded.
thats my 2 cents. lol |
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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| starryeyed346 wrote: | russians dont bother me at all.
im only 18 tho, and i cant speak on behalf of the rest of my country, but i can speak on experience.
i am dating a lovely russian boy, and through him, i have been seriously cultured, lol. i have met all his russian friends, it'll be like... 10 russians and then lil ol' american me, and sometimes they go on russian tangents and i cant understand. but for the most part we get along great. my parents love him and his russian-ness.... everyone i know who has met him is so intrigued and curious. we've all asked questions and listened intently and learned from egor, my beaux. very open-minded.
thats my 2 cents. lol |
Honey, don't you worry about a thing...you will get there...as the day goes by, you will understand even more with this guy....it sounds so exciting for you...and it is good that he is open-minded...he will teach you... |
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fnowat
Just Starting
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: Whoa, this thread skips like a flat stone on still waters! |
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So... stick my neck on the chopping block here-
Twickers had it right- most US citizens do not know about Russia! I think it was termed by them. But I also think that most do not know more than what is transmitted over the boob tube! IMOO. I listen to many of my coworkers talk of "fantasy" sports for 8 hours straight! I hate sports and I am the most athletic guy in the department! And then there is the other group that will let their life's schedule be manipulated by the programs on the TV! And they will discuss what has happened on 24 (tv show). Get out of the house and discover your world!
So many of my coworkers, neighbors, or my son's friends could not name the 50 states and capitols. But I grew up with a marvelous Gold (yellow) bordered magazine that exposed me to the varied planet we live on. I just recently got to explore the globe. My carreer turned a corner and I get to travel to many places. But some people worship the TV. Last summer it took me much time to find out that my days off were wasted by watching the Discovery Channel, the History Channel, or nature channels. So I forced myself to disconnect the cable and find life.
But back to the original question- I find it amazing of the parallels of Russia and the USA. The demographics. Population distribution. The Oligarchs are the "power" families of the USA's past (Morgan, Rockefeller). The oligarchs are now the high end of the society of monetary gains. The two governments had spent so much effort to manipulate their peoples opinion of the other. Each spun an ornate web of deciet. And I have met more and more Russians, I find the similarities. Another post had it- we care about our children and want them to have it better than what we did.
I was invited into a house on a Christmas in Moscow a few years ago. A friend invited me to witness a Russian Christmas, I just had to stay at a hotel. So the small apartment (flat) was so little for the family of 4. And the furnishings were very modest. But after all the guests were there (including me), the table was embellished with a feast of yesteryear! And everybody was the Kind. It was so warm and comfortable. And I do not look anything like the Hollywood "A" list actor, but I had the attention of many of the single girls running around the neighborhood. I had lost my father just the previous fall to the long terms effects of alcoholism. So the word circulating was that this single American guy was in the area and he does not drink. I was treated like gold. I do not know what Brad Pitt feels like when he goes to visit people, but I think I have a clue! I had never told so many beautiful girls "no." I am not saying that sex was offered, but I could probably lowered my morals and had some fun. But I was there to visit my friend, not to bed down the ladies. I have never been offered so much hospitality from so many people who I did not know just the day prior!
Every place (city, country, or neighborhood) has it's dark side. And so there is evil or wrong-doing in many places. You just have to open your eyes to see this. But there is also the good near the same place.
JoJo wrote of men. Yet she has not seen the outlook of what Russian men are exposed to. I do not know this view. Yet I have been told by many of the few opportunities available for men. So many get disenchanted with this and fall victim to the bottle or stare endlessly at the TV. Yet, how many US citizens spend their nights in front of the TV? How many US citizens have a TV in the bedroom? I think this is rude. There are many people who should hold conversations with their beloved. Not watch that stinking boob tube!
So, now you may cut me to bleed for this opinion. Have at it!
frank |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Well it will be interesting to see how much things have changed in just the past few years...as I am sure that they have. I spent the whole day reading the history of Russia...and I have to say I am concerned that once oil prices drop...so much for Russia. But it also seems as though the world banks own Russia and perhaps they will not let it dwindle. So with the boom that Russia is experiencing I think there is more opportunities there and because of such the Russian men should be able to prosper. Yes we have some families in the US that live pretty lavishly...but the average american lives far better than most. |
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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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fnowat,
I really enjoyed reading your post...it is really interesting with your experience in Russia...you are right about the TV and people not getting out and seeing the world...there is so much more to experience than to know what Brad Pitt or Paris Hilton are doing with their lives..I will say that I do watch the history channel WHEN I can....I usually work or I am in school and on this forum...more lately since my break from college...now it is back to being serious again...you said I wrote about men..but I wasn't sure if you mean't American or Russian..which there were several post I made about both...I don't know of Russian men only what I have been told by others who have dated or had a serious relationships...I was told of their gentlemen qualities but I have read in this forum about the opposite side of Russian men, alcoholism..ect......I don't know anything about Russia but I cannot wait to experience meeting people and seeing a beautiful country...I changed my mind about going there but came to my senses...I would be a fool not to go....I hope my experience will be as great as yours was...I admire you for staying in control when it came to the women there...most men would not have gave it another look as you did..A man deserves great respect when he can control himself around beautiful women and not always give in....it shows strength...to me anyway...glad you had a great experience....great post!!!! |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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jo jo: We have to be realistic and note that large part of his excitment came from single women vying for his attention.
There's no question that too many people in the US just watch TV all day, However, the US scientists, engineers, economists, etc. This country at the forefront of innovation. The "average" person is not that knowledgeable anywhere. Once you get out of major cities like Moscow and St Petersburg, you will find that most people are not well-educated. And in large cities in Russia (just like in the US), the crowd is very diverse - from those who are highly educated and knowlegeable, to those who know very little and have nothing but the very basic education.
I did not quite understand what fnowat's point was: was it that the US is full of idiots that watch TV all and don't know anything about the outside world? There's some truth to that. But that would be true about any country. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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I read what you read spice...and fnwot sounds like you are newly awakened to the world of traveling. Yes Americans watch a lot of tv...which when abused is definitely bad and when used in the best way can be very informative, educational, and entertaining. I watched a show on Monday night that caused me to do a lot of reading yesterday and has now furthered my desire to again travel abroad. It allowed me to also take further interest in a friend(s) life and back ground furthuring our relations. And it also keeps me interested in WTR where it all comes full circle again. BTW I have made at least one new friend here and we definitely have the the same interests, and desire to visit Russia.
Ok as far as Russian women go...yes they are beautiful and plentifu...but America has just as many beautiful women...and there are beautiful women every where in the world...it is nice to get the attention though. I received a lot of attention over there too. Of course I was only interested in one in particular. But go to any country and I'm sure you will find that being a foriegner in a group of interested people and you will get a lot of attention.
I have basic education and I can name all fifty states, am current on world affairs etc etc...it's because I am interested. Others have different interests and priorities...and you are always going to have those who will sit in front of the boob tube, the nintendo, and the computer. I do it all and then I go out and see it all. I try to live what I see, what I play, and what I learn. I guess the key is not to be abusive at any thing we do in life. I have a TV in the bedroom...I watch the history channel, the travel channel, etc etc. And I probably abuse it...but also I have traveled to some where every year for the past 15 years.
Glad to see that everyone is interested in russia...I guess if we weren't then we wouldn't be here on WTR.
Hey jojo! And American girls have it going on...if they had an accent-wow! Oh wait-Southern Girls do  |
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fnowat
Just Starting
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: TV blasting- |
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Hey surfguy... you are right on, many have other priorities. I view the loss of time in front of the TV to be very sad. And many people say that there is less time in a day to do things. I am new to this site, but have been traveling the world for just 10 years. I have had the attention of girls in other places, but it was a very different vibe in Moscow. And there are many outside of the USA that have the perception that anybody who is from the USA is RICH. Especially if they are at their doorstep in far-away lands! I was in Bali, El Tigre, Venezuela, and just outside of San Paulo and was the centerpiece of awe. They thought that my funds were like a mountain spring- never ending. I was pleased at those places of the value of the Dollar. What I could buy for one Dollar was nice! And please do not think that I was putting those 'channels' down, I enjoy those channels immensely! But I was not devoting my time to worthy causes. And when you talk of finding other interests then doing research on it, I was always broadening my horizons with the National Geographic Society Magazine. I was always privy to those lovely pages for my lifetime. And one of my lifetime goals is to have one of my photos published in NG magazine. Caio,
frank |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: TV blasting- |
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| fnowat wrote: | Hey surfguy... you are right on, many have other priorities. I view the loss of time in front of the TV to be very sad. And many people say that there is less time in a day to do things. I am new to this site, but have been traveling the world for just 10 years. I have had the attention of girls in other places, but it was a very different vibe in Moscow. And there are many outside of the USA that have the perception that anybody who is from the USA is RICH. Especially if they are at their doorstep in far-away lands! I was in Bali, El Tigre, Venezuela, and just outside of San Paulo and was the centerpiece of awe. They thought that my funds were like a mountain spring- never ending. I was pleased at those places of the value of the Dollar. What I could buy for one Dollar was nice! And please do not think that I was putting those 'channels' down, I enjoy those channels immensely! But I was not devoting my time to worthy causes. And when you talk of finding other interests then doing research on it, I was always broadening my horizons with the National Geographic Society Magazine. I was always privy to those lovely pages for my lifetime. And one of my lifetime goals is to have one of my photos published in NG magazine. Caio,
frank |
So you know the life...yes so many foriegn countries think that Americans are all millionairs...and I guess compared to thier incomes we might as well be. But the sad reality is that we are not and we work hard to be able to travel. I can only imagine the girls in Brazil and Venezuela...and definitely the dollar goes a long ways down there. I like NG magazine-it definitely inspires and informs. But I was not really disagreeing with your post...the TV Set can certainly be a waste of time. Just look at all the lame shows: American Idol, Survivor, Friends, Desperate House Wives, the REAL OC...so many stupid shows. But I guess as we all know our society is very competetive and not everyone gets to be a superstar Doctor, Lawyer, Actor or what ever...and so look on the poisitive side...the TV weeds people out allowing quality people to produce and advance society...and I guess also keeps the tourist to a minimum. Just think if everyone wanted to travel and did...what a zoo this world would really be...so keep em in front of the TV and we'll get the spoils of travel. Wow did I just put a twist on this post or what? |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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surfguy - You name the dumb shows. But we have lots of very good and smart shows. Take "Daily Show" with John Stewart or news magazines on PBS and CNN ("Frontline", etc.) Some sitcoms were very smart and witty - take "Seinfeld" in the 90s. HBO produces some really good quality shows - from "Sopranos" to "Big Love" about mormons in Utah to "Real Time with Bill Maher"
I watched the 1st 2 seasons of Apprentice and also found it to be interesting. I think it's easy to put down TV because we have over 100 channels here and you can find a lot of junk. To me, the TV is like the US itself - what is good is the opportunity to see what you like - good and bad. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| very good point spice and you are absolutely right...but I was saying basically the same thing in a previous post. Good analogy too. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | very good point spice and you are absolutely right...but I was saying basically the same thing in a previous post. Good analogy too. |
And to be fair, if we critisize the US, we need to mention some Russian shows that are very popular there and watches by the majority. Most of them are police dramas that are pretty silly. "Law and Order" is 10 times better. Just my personal opinion.
My parents have Russian TV (4 channels). So when I visit them, I see what Russians are now watching - it's not that sohisticated. |
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