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SPQR
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Moscow
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 Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Fire_Goddess"] | yorbcbud wrote: | | Fire_Goddess wrote: | | I just feel that we are always ignoring ethnic cleansings and pretending they are none issues, wherever they occur. But suddenly we act like Russia and Iran are the big bad, meanwhile we ignored and continue to ignore North Koreas threats. I personally feel that ethnic cleansings and wacko dictators with a God complex are a bigger issue than whether or not an election in a country was fair or weather trade is improving. It seems obvious that we ignore countries we dont consider "big players", and that is wrong. |
No shit man. Kim Jong Il is openly daring the west to "come get some". He's a helluva bunch scarier than Iran. IMHO |
The North Koreans can get away with saying such things because they have China standing behind them. If the US and its allies were to "come get some" in North Korea, the Chinese would intervene again, the exact same way they did in 1950 and the way they could have done during Vietnam.
Iran doesn't have a comparable ally... |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Fire_Goddess wrote: | | yorbcbud wrote: | | Fire_Goddess wrote: | | Thats because we really dont want peace in its true form, we want people to submit to us. |
I don't, I mean unless she really really wants to |
Huh?!?!?!  |
It's no fun if I have to explain it. I have to go make a blog post. Later Peace. |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: |
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[quote="SPQR"] | Fire_Goddess wrote: | | yorbcbud wrote: | | Fire_Goddess wrote: | | I just feel that we are always ignoring ethnic cleansings and pretending they are none issues, wherever they occur. But suddenly we act like Russia and Iran are the big bad, meanwhile we ignored and continue to ignore North Koreas threats. I personally feel that ethnic cleansings and wacko dictators with a God complex are a bigger issue than whether or not an election in a country was fair or weather trade is improving. It seems obvious that we ignore countries we dont consider "big players", and that is wrong. |
No shit man. Kim Jong Il is openly daring the west to "come get some". He's a helluva bunch scarier than Iran. IMHO |
The North Koreans can get away with saying such things because they have China standing behind them. If the US and its allies were to "come get some" in North Korea, the Chinese would intervene again, the exact same way they did in 1950 and the way they could have done during Vietnam.
Iran doesn't have a comparable ally... |
It always amazes me that China has a million soldiers ready to go anytime. |
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Fire_Goddess
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| SPQR wrote: | The North Koreans can get away with saying such things because they have China standing behind them. If the US and its allies were to "come get some" in North Korea, the Chinese would intervene again, the exact same way they did in 1950 and the way they could have done during Vietnam.
Iran doesn't have a comparable ally... |
That's true, but why should anyone view Iran as a threat then? |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| I think little Kim would nuke someone just to see the light show. |
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Entropy
WayToRussified
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| yorbcbud wrote: | | The political scene in Canada worked out exactly the way I wanted it to. We got the thieves out of office, but we didn't give Harper enough leash to screw up the other way. And you know the only reason the Bloc got in was because of the sheer number of frenchies in Quebec. |
I think you missed your calling. You should've been a political commentator.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | So thats okay they can do their silly separatist stuff and in the meantime they take just enough votes for Harper to behave himself. |
Speaking like a true redneck (lol), I'd say give'em one more vote: Now or Never.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | This is actually the ideal government we have now. There has to be a lot of butt kissing for Harper to do anything of significance. I not sure I like the buddy buddy thing with Mckay and Rice I saw last night on the CBC. But Harper has only one ball anyway, so he'll have to behave himself somewhat. I am glad there's going to be debate on Afghanistan, if for no other reason than to confirm one waqy or another that we should be there. I know the Taliban are hiding in the hills with Bin Laden, But we didn't technichally go there to oust the Taliban. Personally, I'm fine with us being there, but I believe we should have public confirmation from the Afghani people as well. |
Their elected officials have already said as much.
| yorbcbud wrote: | It is their country, so they have to say for themselves.
The US takes 85% of our exports, but we have a couple cards ourselves, remember, we are the #1 supplier of oil and electricity. Unfortunately as Canadians, we don't play the game that way, and I am glad we take the high road on that subject. I don't want to be that way. |
Oil is fungible. It has one price on the International markets with adjustments for quality and transportation. If U.S. wanted, they could buy their oil elsewhere and force us to take a reduced price to ship our somewhere else. We'd get the kick.
Electricity, yeah, we have some sway with our electrical exports from Quebec. But they can always build more nuclear plants.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | Iran could be trouble, they are taking a very stubborn approach to the nuclear thing, but maybe they do want just electricity. Things aren't always as they seem, and threat from America certainly aren't going to help. Iran is a delicate situation, and they are now snubbing the Russians, but I'm not jumping to any conclusions just yet. We'll watch that one close, won't we? |
If Iran was simply interested in electricity, they would have agreed long ago to the Russian proposal. And they wouldn't be making threatening noises to Israel. They are clearly marketing their potential to be a nuclear power in a military sense. You know what happens when you play with fire.... Anyway, we've bashed this issue long enough. Let's just wait to see what happens.
Last edited by Entropy on Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SPQR
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| yorbcbud wrote: | | One of the biggest problems that the Muslims have bitched about, is the fact that once the infidels enter a country, they never leave it. Do they carry it to far? Not according to them, so why doesn't America just get out of the Arab countries, and maybe things would settle down a bit? I know the Muslim religion seems harsh to us, but it's their religion. If it is to be changed, they'll change it on their own, without our help. It's never too late for America to gain its former respect in the world, but it's not a pissing contest, it's world peace. |
Some of those Muslim countries' governments invited US troops in. That's what the Saudis did in 1990. At present the US Central Command is in Doha (in Qatar), while the Fifth Fleet is headquartered in Al-Manama (in Bahrain). That only happened because those countries were willing to accept them.
Iraq, of course, is the exception...
Nobody's seriously talking about changing the Muslim religion, but that's a different thing from changing the region's political systems. |
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Fire_Goddess
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| yorbcbud wrote: | | I think little Kim would nuke someone just to see the light show. |
Yes he is an isolated nut case with nothing to lose. |
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SPQR
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: |
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[quote="yorbcbud"] | SPQR wrote: | | Fire_Goddess wrote: | | yorbcbud wrote: | | Fire_Goddess wrote: | | I just feel that we are always ignoring ethnic cleansings and pretending they are none issues, wherever they occur. But suddenly we act like Russia and Iran are the big bad, meanwhile we ignored and continue to ignore North Koreas threats. I personally feel that ethnic cleansings and wacko dictators with a God complex are a bigger issue than whether or not an election in a country was fair or weather trade is improving. It seems obvious that we ignore countries we dont consider "big players", and that is wrong. |
No shit man. Kim Jong Il is openly daring the west to "come get some". He's a helluva bunch scarier than Iran. IMHO |
The North Koreans can get away with saying such things because they have China standing behind them. If the US and its allies were to "come get some" in North Korea, the Chinese would intervene again, the exact same way they did in 1950 and the way they could have done during Vietnam.
Iran doesn't have a comparable ally... |
It always amazes me that China has a million soldiers ready to go anytime. |
Hmm...I don't think it's that surprising. China does have an awful lot of unfriendly neighbours: Japan, South Korea, Russia, India, Taiwan, most of South-East Asia (and the US standing behind the Japanese and Taiwanese). Their only ally is North Korea, who might be more of a liability than an asset. |
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Entropy
WayToRussified
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| yorbcbud wrote: | | You cannot deny, Entropy that Canada is getting fed up with Bushes second rate treatment of his" close friend". Why do you think that China is getting in on the Tar Sands? We are drumming up more foreign business, and becoming less, albeit slowly, dependent of America. The distance is an issue with Europe, but it will be overcome, like all issues. |
China is awash in U.S. dollars. So they buying energy sources wherever they can, regardless of the Americans. They paid top dollar for oil out of Ecuador, a highly unstable place. So to answer your question, China is buying everything it can.
We've been trying to diversify since Trudeau. We haven't had much luck.
Remember, as oil prices rise, it becomes that much more costly to ship our stuff elsewhere. Oddly enough, the more we benefit from energy, the more dependent we become on Americans.
But don't forget that many Canadians work for American corporations. Most of Calgary downtown is foreign owned oil companies. Even some "Canadian companies" are owned mostly by American shareholders. And a lot of Ontario businesses are owned by Americans.
Do we install a Foreign Review Agency? Last time we were that stupid is during the Trudeau era when we screwed up the economy. Being protectionist is the surest way to screw up the economy. You protect inefficient local production. And then they can't compete. The best policy is to make things as fluid as possible.
Entropy |
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Entropy
WayToRussified
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| SPQR wrote: | | Hmm...I don't think it's that surprising. China does have an awful lot of unfriendly neighbours: Japan, South Korea, Russia, India, Taiwan, most of South-East Asia (and the US standing behind the Japanese and Taiwanese). Their only ally is North Korea, who might be more of a liability than an asset. |
Taiwan--read U.S.
The U.S. heavily supports Taiwan. Heavily.
And China is expanding its military budget. |
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Fire_Goddess
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Money talks and shit walks |
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SPQR
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Fire_Goddess wrote: | | SPQR wrote: | The North Koreans can get away with saying such things because they have China standing behind them. If the US and its allies were to "come get some" in North Korea, the Chinese would intervene again, the exact same way they did in 1950 and the way they could have done during Vietnam.
Iran doesn't have a comparable ally... |
That's true, but why should anyone view Iran as a threat then? |
Most of the countries which feel threatened by Iran are regional countries: Israel, and Saudi and the rest of the Gulf States. The Iranian regime has long said that destroying Israel is one of its goals, but given that Israel has nukes of its own, I seriously doubt that the Iranians would attack them.
Saudi and the Gulf States are another question. Like I've said on here before, in military terms Iran is already the most powerful country in the region, and acquiring nukes would increase the 'power gap' even further, so that Iran could pose a very serious threat to Saudi and the Gulf States. Given how much of the developed world's oil comes from the Gulf region, it's understandable that the US and its allies don't want an unfriendly power like Iran threatening or even controlling that oil supply.
And at an even simpler level: would you want your enemies to be nuclear-armed or not? |
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Fire_Goddess
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| No I would not, but then as a country with nukes I would not go bullying nations who didnt have nukes and allowing other countries who have nukes to do the same. |
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SPQR
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Entropy wrote: | | SPQR wrote: | | Hmm...I don't think it's that surprising. China does have an awful lot of unfriendly neighbours: Japan, South Korea, Russia, India, Taiwan, most of South-East Asia (and the US standing behind the Japanese and Taiwanese). Their only ally is North Korea, who might be more of a liability than an asset. |
Taiwan--read U.S.
The U.S. heavily supports Taiwan. Heavily.
And China is expanding its military budget. |
Yes, the US does support Taiwan very heavily, in military, economic and diplomatic terms. That's why a US carrier battle group turns up in the Taiwan Strait every time the Chinese conduct naval exercises in the region.
The Chinese have been massively increasing their military spending ever since the First Gulf War, at the rate of about 10% per year. China certainly has ambitions of developing its economy and displacing the US as the regional superpower - maybe by military means, maybe not. But that's very much a long-term plan (over the next 30-40 years or so).
At present they're not strong enough to take on the US and its East Asian allies; that may change in the future, or it may not... |
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