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Moscow Overpriced Revisited Goto page 1, 2  Next

Way to Russia Talk Lounge Forum Index -> Moscow

Author	Message
scholar Frequent Guest Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 18	Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: Moscow Overpriced Revisited Here's more proof of what I claimed in a thread here last year: As reported this week in the Economist, Mercer Human Resource Consulting's survey of quality of life among cities world wide lists Moscow as: 1 - Zurich 163 - St. Petersburg 166 - Kiev 173 - Moscow 184 - Minsk 270 - Baghdad - the lowest See: http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?idr=530&id=665370 http://www.mercerhr.com/pressrelease/details.jhtml/dynamic/idContent/1173105 At the same time, Moscow is No. 4 in cost of living. http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/21/pf/costliest_cities/ Which is not too unusual, if as a whole, Russia ranks No. 105 in quality of life, right next to Nigeria and Haiti with the worst No. 111 Zimbabwe. See: http://www.economist.com/theWorldIn/international/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3372495&d=2005 Being No. 4 in cost of living and at the bottom of quality of life makes for a very disgusting experience indeed. From personal experience, in Russia, you can spend $500 on a hotel room or restaurant, or anything else, and be treated like dirt. Sould you decide to spend the same $500 in New York or Tokyo, you're likely to be in for a different experience. This is a sad story, but it is a fact. You don't get your money's worth in Moscow. Strange that some people in Moscow and Russia in general like to be proud of the fact that it is so expensive. It is a hollow pride. Last edited by scholar on Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:58 pm; edited 6 times in total
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MrSpice Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431	Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:44 pm    Post subject: But to be fair, only the center of the city is really expensive. 2-3 subway stops from the center, the prices are much lower. The hotels are expensive because of corruption, lack of smaller hotels and high cost of land in the center. I would think you can find a room in moscow for $200/nigth and be treated well. It's not as easy to find as in New York, but possible
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overseas_expat VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 741 Location: Moscow	Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: As far as hotel prices go Spice, I'd have to disagree with you. Accommodations in Russia tend to be expensive even in more remote places. I suppose the reason is that there is such a dearth of hotel rooms in Russia overall. The Soviets didn't build many hotels because people should be working and not going somewhere else and laying around on vacation. There was no tourism industry for citizens or foreigners. That was less than 20 years ago. It will take time and investment for that to change. But hotel prices are really beside scholar's point. He's right. The cost of living is high and the quality that your money buys is low. Decent quality food outide of bread and sausage and potatoes is expensive. Even in Moscow many common food items are hard to find and quality fresh food is scarce and pricey in the winter. A crap apartment inside the MKAD in Moscow is horrifically overpriced. I've seen welfare housing in the US that was better than a lot of Russian apartments, and American welfare is pretty stingy. Housing in this country is decrepit and abysmal everywhere. And the Russian climate.....doesn't have much to recommend it either. No, and expat with choices who isn't into Russian *culture* would definately choose a post in another country before they came here.
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ram Frequent Guest Joined: 07 Jul 2004 Posts: 38	Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:59 am    Post subject: Russia is for Russians!
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scholar Frequent Guest Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 18	Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: ram wrote: Russia is for Russians! This is why rich Russians move to London.
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surfguy Lounge Wizard Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 6979	Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject: delete Last edited by surfguy on Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mister_wizzz VIP Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 582	Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:20 pm    Post subject: The link you posted is very interesting, the gap between cost of life and quality of life is simply unbelievable. What OverseasExpat said is true, many people prefer visiting some other countries than Russia due to the low ratio quality of service/price. Last year my parents planned to visit St Petersburg and Moscow but they finally went to Mexico for this reason (much better service for almost half price !!!). It is a pity, Russia has a lot to offer (culture, sight seeing ...) and it seems Russians do their best not to attract tourists : stupid Visa policy, low quality service (in hotels, shops, restaurants)... Russia for Russians like Ram say No problem I will spend my money somewhere else.
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scholar Frequent Guest Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 18	Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject: surfguy wrote: Which is a bummer because here in the states you can vacation for relatively cheap. I'm hoping to spend no more than a grand on every thing else. You should be OK for a grand for 2 weeks. I've brought up this issue with Russian who live there permanently, and the answer is the same: 1. legalized corruption and anti-business laws drive up the cost of business; 2. excessive concentration of wealth means that there is no middle class and the rich can afford to pay double and not care about it. I just spent half a year living in St.Petersburg and Moscow. I can confirm that quality fresh food was hard to find at any price, even in so called luxury supermarkets. Clothing is consistently more expensive at all price points. At the middle and higher levels, it was impossible to find a good selection of clothing. Luxury stores have a limited range of items, often of dubious taste. Good mobile phone usage costs about $150 a month. In the US, even with a pre-paid plan, you can spend as much in a year for the same amount of airtime. Due to import penalties, automobile prices are almost 200% higher. Moscow real estate prices approach those of other "major" cities, without any of the benefits of say, New York living. Also, a general mean-spirited attitude prevails even from service workers in hotels, store clerks in fancy shops, and parking attendants. Driving in St.Petersburg and Moscow is difficult due to traffic jams, constant "road rage", and extortion by traffic police. At the same time, steps are not being taken to improve the public transport system, both local and long distance trains provide poor service and are outdated. I found that taking a cheaper-than-usual train between Moscow-St.Petersburg was an advantage: the expensive trains were so over-heated that it was impossible to sleep. Public drinking and smoking is also rampant. As a Russian, of course I'm going back and forth, and the inconvenience is managable. But I can't recommend it as a destination for someone who has no personal attachment to the people there.
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surfguy Lounge Wizard Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 6979	Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:04 am    Post subject: delete Last edited by surfguy on Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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camarks Moderator Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 333 Location: Richmond, VA USA	Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:20 am    Post subject: All of this is very interesting, and true on some levels I am sure. However, I have traveled to Russia seven times over the past four years and find the costs very reasonable. Of course the center in Moscow can be very expensive, but if you do your homework and are a little accomodating (wich is something the publishers of the lists can't do) it can be very inexpensive. I have been to Moscow for at least a few days on all of my trips and have also been to Kostroma, Barnaul, Belokurikha, St. Petersburg, Push Gory, Murmansk, Apatity, Chernogolavka, Samara, and Tikhvin. I find the costs for many things incredibly small. The availability of things and perhaps the quality of life is a little less than I am used to at home, but that's not why I go. The prime reason (along with a longtime interest in Russia) for my first trip was to take a course (in English even!) that was much less expensive than anything I could get here in the US. I spent a total of less than $1200 (including airfare) for ten days in Russia, which also included sightseeing in Moscow (3 nights). My estimated costs for a similar two-day course that I could have taken in Boston instead was well over $1500 without any sightseeing. Moscow is in transition, the hotel options must be getting more expensive, but there are many more restaurants now so eating out is getting less expensive. The quality of the roads in Russia is terrible, the worst I have seen anywhere.
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Kesha Talk Show Host Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Terrapin Station	Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:18 am    Post subject: I thought the roads in Russia were bad until I visited Ukraine.
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camarks Moderator Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 333 Location: Richmond, VA USA	Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: I haven't been to any other former Soviet states yet, but I can imagine that the roads would generally be worse than in Russia with the possible exception of the Baltic states.
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surfguy Lounge Wizard Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 6979	Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: Yes I guess any big city is expensive, really I am not surprised and I'm paying $1500 for air fare and lodging, it is pretty good for a 14 day trip. And then it's just spending money to go out. So yes I have no complaints.
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Pasha Frequent Guest Joined: 25 Apr 2003 Posts: 38 Location: Moscow	Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: The answers are simple. 1. The quality of living. How long do you think does it take to rebuild the entire country? Now, consider that Russia is the biggest country in the world 2. The prices are high. Moscow attracts many individuals and businesses, so demand is higher then supply. Besides, high prices in major fields pull all other prices higher.
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juancastiglione Just Starting Joined: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 1	Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: <spam-deleted> <spam-deleted>
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