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Ekaterina
Talk Show Host
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Moscow
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 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Russian people in general |
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| vitalsigns wrote: | | Ekaterina wrote: | | MrSpice wrote: | | I think you're just excited and did not get an objective impression about the country because you only visited it for 2.5 weeks. |
It is just your thoughts MrSpice.
There is another forum mate who has already immigrated from the US to Volgograd.
You know I have been living here for almost 38 years and still love the country and the people. |
No. Ekaterina, you, like most liberal-minded people, hate America and most americans. You will never be able to undrestand people who immigrated to America and are grateful for the better life he or she is now enjoying.
Your negative comments about the US were appaling after you recent trip to the US. Stop trying to hide your true thoughts, I know exactly what you are thinking about the US.
And the last thing, please, keep my name (although it is NOT my name) out of your posts. I have not spoken to you for ages why do you have to stick my name into your posts? |
vitalsigns,
There is no logic in your reply. We were talking about Russia in this thread and I didn't say a word about America here.
No need to unmask me here. I have never hid myself under a fake name like you and have never hid my impression of America. Everyone here understands why I had so negative impression. I don't think you would fall in love to the country and it's people if someone there tried to kill you. Have you ever had the similar experience?
Nevertheless 'hate' is too strong word to describe my feeling of America and Americans. I met some nice people in America who invited me to their houses and shared their roof and food with me. I understand that there are different people in America as in any other country and I was really unlucky during my trip there.
| MrSpice wrote: | | Do you really think that someone who is interested in a particular country would run away because someone like me pointed out the objective reality there? |
They try to share there impressions with others on this forum and get negative attack from you immediately so they understand that nothing to do on this forum if such people like you rule here so the forum looses the people with interesting and useful experience. |
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macroman99
Just Starting
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: |
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First part of this post is a copy of the PM I sent to charles and I meant for it to be a posted reply:
Hello Charles, this is macroman99. I very much appreciate your words and thoughts concerning this whole turn of forum posts regarding my simple expression of a pleasurable experience I had visiting Russia. And so now I will qualify some things for Mr. Spice and the rest who have so distastefully attempted to have their opinions expressed as if to say to me; "Are you crazy, you live in the richest nation in the world and you want to live in Russia?" And to this I say an emphatic yes because you see to me there is a lot more to life than riches, comfort and all that the US has to offer. I have seen all 48 states, been in all major and minor cities in the US because I drove truck for Mayflowers movers for 15 years. I have seen just about everything there is to see or care to see in the US and quite frankly I am appalled at the imperialistic tendencies of the US government. And so I wouldn't leave the US because of that, but what surfguy inserts at the end of his posts says a mouthful and sort of says how I feel: (live life to the fullest-enjoy who you are-what you have-who you are with). Bottom line here is I am a free agent of this life and there is nothing anyone can say or do that would ever convince me that living in Russia is a bad thing to do, and I mean nothing..................period.
And the second part of this post is a reply to vitalsigns:
Vitalsigns wrote:
No. Ekaterina, you, like most liberal-minded people, hate America and most Americans. You will never be able to understand people who immigrated to America and are grateful for the better life he or she is now enjoying.
Firstly,what an unlogical statement!!!!
Secondly, do you really believe most of the liberal-minded people here in America, who are either Democrats or Republicans (mostly Democrats) hate America and Americans?????
Thirdly, it is a sad state of affairs that in response to my simple expression of the pleasurable experience I had visiting Russia that I and others who seek to only carry on a pleasant exchange get such ugly, negative, hateful, disparaging, biased and unrelenting attacks from supposed adult people. GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you have such negative, hateful, hurtful and ugly remarks that come from your heart I pity you. There is enough of this kind of exchange in the world, do we really need to see this kind of thing in a place where we hopefully can be free from such ugliness??????????
And now a note here to Ekaterina:
Thank you so very much for being a light in this forum that tends to harbor darkness, hate and discontent. And I would add charles to this list, although I've not seen any other message from him concerning this or any other thread. I have talked with Ekaterina and quite frankly I would not even consider a phone or skype conversation with anyone who comes off as a negative person. From the beginning of this thread Ekaterina has been only positive; which is more, excuse me, much more than I can say for the rest of the thread's participants except charles. And I suppose surfguy has been fair.
And now a comment to Mr. Spice who started the rest of the thread with this:
I think you're just excited and did not get an objective impression about the country because you only visited it for 2.5 weeks
Do you really think I am so ignorant as to close my eyes to anything that wasn't good, beautiful or otherwise exemplary and leave Russia with the impression that it has no problems, that it has no troubles, that it has no evils?? Where on this earth can anyone go and have such perfection that you would never see or experience any of these negative things? Ok, duh, yes of course the north pole or the south pole, if you don't mind the numbing cold. Sorry I overlooked such an outstanding place to live, seems as though this would be perfect if you didn't mind being a hermit. Ok so you don't like the cold, ok go to the farthest reaches of the equator where there are no people. Ahh, now we are getting somewhere. WHEREVER YOU FIND PEOPLE THERE YOU WILL FIND THE LIVING OUT TO SOME DEGREE OF THE DARK NATURE OF THE HUMAN EXISTENCE.
We cannot escape it, it is everywhere we want to be to some degree. Well I could go on and on about this, but I only got out of bed to get a glass of water and I need to get up at 2:30am to get ready for work. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Well said Dwight and I couldn't agree with you more. Living in Russia is in my future and am working on it for next year. I can't wait to return and see the country side. The friends that I made there represent the best that mankind has to offer. The scenery is spectacular too.
Living in the states we take a lot for granted and the comforts we have and know here I think all of us would like to see everyone in the world have. America has a lot of bad, but we have just as much good. I will be back to Russia in Aug/Sept and can't wait to return. Yes the U.S. (San Francisco) is my home and always will be-but the world is my play ground. A certain someone has my heart in Russia.
It's so unfortunate that Ekaterina had a bad experience it's inexcusable and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. I've seen the bad here too and it's sad. We are a very complex society I think more so than what most foriegners realize. Definitely have to be street smart.
One of the impressions that I got from Russia was that I didn't realize that white people came in so much variety. Being from California we are so culturally diverse that I think most Russians wouldn't be able to fully relate too. |
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vitalsigns
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 2784
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Russian people in general |
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| macroman99 wrote: | | I visited Barnaul to meet my fiance, she will emigrate to the US in about 4 to 5 months. |
It will take at least a year before she steps on the US soil. It can take a whole lot longer with the backlog in the immigration services (USCIS).
| Quote: | | If it be possible I would obtain Russian citizenship and yet retain my US citizenship so that travel between America and Russian would be without the hassle of tourist visa. I do not know if this is possible, but I favor doing this. |
It will take about 6-8 years before you accomplish something like that (provided you married your fiance first and she got her green card which will take 3 years).
| Quote: | | All things considered I fell in love with Russia, its people and their ways and wouldn't hesitate to live there myself, provided I could gain employment. |
Trucking in Russia is a horrifying experience. You will never make enough for a decent living. You will find it hard to find a job in Russia since you speak no Russian and with the GA drawl you probably have you will have the hardest time ever to speak Russian in a more or less understandable way.
I will grow up after you did. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| macroman99 wrote: | | And so now I will qualify some things for Mr. Spice and the rest who have so distastefully attempted to have their opinions expressed as if to say to me; "Are you crazy, you live in the richest nation in the world and you want to live in Russia?" And to this I say an emphatic yes because you see to me there is a lot more to life than riches, comfort and all that the US has to offer. |
That is obvious that wealth and money is not everything. Actually, what I appreciate most about the US is the wealth of opportunities - where and how you work, where and how you live, as well as services and choices that the average person has when it comes to everything - stores, books, TV, magazines, nespapers, etc. I am not a big fan of the current government either. I would assume that big changes are coming in November this year as well as 2008 (unlike Russia where Putin is likely to be replaced by Putin II since both television and parliament are controlled by him, his cronies and the corrupt members of the former communist party).
First of all, you need to chill out a little bit. I think you have a fever.
There's no question that Russia is an interesting country. I love the country and the people myself. Unlike you, I saw both countries quite a bit, so it may be wise for you to listen and avoid upper case charactes that mean very little. No matter what you think, living in a country for 21 years (like me) and visiting it for 2.5 weeks are different experiences. Obviously, Russia has changed for the better in the past few years. Oil revenue is booming, there are lots of new businesses and there are more choices and opportunities there - it's becoming very capitalist while government maintains control over political structures and most of the mass media (sort of a Chinese models).
But you've never had to deal with Russia beauracracy and don't know what it is.
You've never had to deal with Russian police (milizia) - they may rob you and beat you instead of helping you. And forget the words "I will sue you" if something improper happens to you - courts are still very weak.
You never had to deal with "propiska" - recording of where you live. If you have to carry passport with you at all times. And if you walk around in a nation's capital (Moscow) and you're not living in Moscow, milizia can stop you and ask you to prove that you're staying at a hotel. And if you don't have a proof, they can arrest you. The same thing may happen to you if you don't have a passport.
Most verdicts that are passed in the criminal court are "guilty" verdicts. Just like you tell me to keep an open mind about your situation, you have to keep an open mind about serious problems that russia has that you're not aware of.
And when you scream about the US and its policies (rightfully so), don't forget that the record of the former soviet union is hardly a good one when it comes to human rights and military aggression. You want to live in a country that is friendlier than most towards Iran, North Korea and other despotic regimes. And most crimes in the world are committed with US and Russian weapons (Russia is one of the biggest exporters of arms together with the US). And Putin has been a former KGB officer. If you think it was a moral organization, read some books on the subject - before you live the US, though. Because you won't find that much critical info on Putin when you get to Russia... |
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macroman99
Just Starting
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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And off to the slamming races we go.
First of all I am not from Georgia, again an assumption just because I said I flew from Atlanta to Moscow and consequently I do not have a southern drawl, strike one.
Secondly just because I once drove truck does not mean I would ever or could ever do it again, my back surgery eliminates that as a possiblility, again an assumption not based on all the facts, strike two.
Thirdly I have congressional support to expedite this visa application, strike three.
And lastly why the continued negative comments? I did not ask for negative input, I do not want it, I happen to know a thing or two and have done my research and continue to do my research, which by the way I am only accepting positive feedback. I do not need or want negative influences in my life. Post all you want I am pretty good at disregarding all negativity. But hey thanks for the free press nevertheless, I only came on board to this forum in the first place in the hopes of finding like minds and these are the ones I will listen to and take to heart their advice and theirs only. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| macroman99 wrote: |
Post all you want I am pretty good at disregarding all negativity. But hey thanks for the free press nevertheless, I only came on board to this forum in the first place in the hopes of finding like minds and these are the ones I will listen to and take to heart their advice and theirs only. |
I don't know if accomplished what I was trying to say, but I tried to be objective, not negative. I guess you were mostly referring to vitalsigns' post. |
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macroman99
Just Starting
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Well maybe so, but I must say I am aware of a good deal of what is wrong or troubling with Russia and to me all of that at this time in my life is inconsequential to the intended purpose of living with my Russian wife in Russia at some point in the future. For now I take everything with a grain of salt and if it is good I lodge it to memory, if it is in any way negative or disruptive to positive thought and intention and purpose and fulfillment of purpose then I disregard until I need to know.
I suppose a hearty thank you is called for here in respect to your objectivity. And who knows what the future may bring respecting this intention of moving to Russia, for now it is something I want to do and my fiance feels the same and again this is for now, we are only dreaming and expressing our desires to like minds who have already done so or who are planning to do so and therefore would relish their experience and knowledge.
Again thank all of you for your input, I desire no conflict, I am only expressing a dream and the hope that it comes true and at the same time knowing full well what lifestyle I will give up leaving America. |
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vitalsigns
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 2784
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:55 am Post subject: |
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What troubles me and what I cannot understand is why do people get ticked off at me or anyone who tries to bring a dose of reality into their misguided judgements?
Would you do me a favor 99? Can you come here in about 2 years (maybe 3 years) and share about your experiences again? Let see who was right and who was wrong. Is it a deal?
Thanks. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Well spoken by all of you...it's all good insight and a lot of valid points. Makes me think. |
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macroman99
Just Starting
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Why is it that anyone is right or wrong, does it matter? Even for some, living in America isn’t what they had hoped for or for that matter even for some who were born here from American citizens and grow into adolescence decide for some reason or another that America isn’t where they would rather live. Does it make them wrong because they choose not to remain here? Does it make them more wrong because they choose to live in Russia, China, North Korea or any other country that falls into the category of countries that tend to or are known for the way they treat their citizens with suspicion and iron fisted control? If I decided to live out my remaining years in the Amazon river basin or the deserts of Africa or anyplace on earth that tends to exercise control over its inhabitants via the climate, weather conditions and the total lack of comforts that we here in America are so prone to worship, would that make me wrong? I have never maintained I am right about what Russia’s political, economical, and living conditions climate is, or know everything about these things. I have only all along voiced my pleasure and desires to live in Russia, the country from which you came and are deservedly abhorrent of due to the living conditions and whatever else has left you with the bad taste in your mouth, not for Russia itself and its people, but for the political/ economical climate. I have never been ticked off at anyone on this forum; however, I will not stand by so idly and allow other’s negative perceptions (however legitimate) to cloud my dreams and intentions. I will speak my peace and let the chips fall where they may. And so how can I come back in 2 or 3 years, or 5 or 10 years and say anyone was right or wrong when what I do I do from the desire to fulfill my dreams, whatever they may be or include, whatever comes, whatever the political/ economical climate is wherever I go, even if I stay in America. And whatever I do it will be done for good reason as far as I am concerned and with no respect to anyone else standing on the outside looking in and shaking their head and saying “Why did he/ she do this or that, I just can’t understand why he/ she would live in such and such a place.”
And why is it that my decisions, thoughts, desires and dreams, whatever they may include be considered misguided judgments? Misguided judgments from whose perspective? From the perspective of one standing on the outside looking in at the life of someone they know nothing about? This makes no sense to me that my desires or dreams could ever be considered misguided judgments or perceptions. I give careful thought and planning to all I do, hence why I say “From the perspective of one standing on the outside looking in at the life of someone they know nothing about?” Life is not black or white, what is good for one may not be good for another, what is most important for one is or may not be most important for another. The rules of life I live by, the morals I live by, and the fabric of my inner world is not the same as you or many others. We all are individuals, having very different outlooks on the world around us and so there is no right or wrong in comparing the life I live to the lives of others around me, no matter their lot in life, no matter their country of origin. Your decision to leave Russia for your reasons is not necessarily an across the board reason for anyone to either stay there or desire to live there. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Go for it Dwight-you know what it's like here and that the U.S. will always be here to return to. Live life and enjoy it-all the best to you.
I can tell you this though the postal service over there sucks so beware! |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Ñîððåíòî, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| macroman99 wrote: | First part of this post is a copy of the PM I sent to charles and I meant for it to be a posted reply:
Hello Charles, this is macroman99. I very much appreciate your words and thoughts concerning this whole turn of forum posts regarding my simple expression of a pleasurable experience I had visiting Russia. And so now I will qualify some things for Mr. Spice and the rest who have so distastefully attempted to have their opinions expressed as if to say to me; "Are you crazy, you live in the richest nation in the world and you want to live in Russia?" And to this I say an emphatic yes because you see to me there is a lot more to life than riches, comfort and all that the US has to offer. I have seen all 48 states, been in all major and minor cities in the US because I drove truck for Mayflowers movers for 15 years. I have seen just about everything there is to see or care to see in the US and quite frankly I am appalled at the imperialistic tendencies of the US government. And so I wouldn't leave the US because of that, but what surfguy inserts at the end of his posts says a mouthful and sort of says how I feel: (live life to the fullest-enjoy who you are-what you have-who you are with). Bottom line here is I am a free agent of this life and there is nothing anyone can say or do that would ever convince me that living in Russia is a bad thing to do, and I mean nothing..................period.
And the second part of this post is a reply to vitalsigns:
Vitalsigns wrote:
No. Ekaterina, you, like most liberal-minded people, hate America and most Americans. You will never be able to understand people who immigrated to America and are grateful for the better life he or she is now enjoying.
Firstly,what an unlogical statement!!!!
Secondly, do you really believe most of the liberal-minded people here in America, who are either Democrats or Republicans (mostly Democrats) hate America and Americans?????
Thirdly, it is a sad state of affairs that in response to my simple expression of the pleasurable experience I had visiting Russia that I and others who seek to only carry on a pleasant exchange get such ugly, negative, hateful, disparaging, biased and unrelenting attacks from supposed adult people. GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you have such negative, hateful, hurtful and ugly remarks that come from your heart I pity you. There is enough of this kind of exchange in the world, do we really need to see this kind of thing in a place where we hopefully can be free from such ugliness??????????
And now a note here to Ekaterina:
Thank you so very much for being a light in this forum that tends to harbor darkness, hate and discontent. And I would add charles to this list, although I've not seen any other message from him concerning this or any other thread. I have talked with Ekaterina and quite frankly I would not even consider a phone or skype conversation with anyone who comes off as a negative person. From the beginning of this thread Ekaterina has been only positive; which is more, excuse me, much more than I can say for the rest of the thread's participants except charles. And I suppose surfguy has been fair.
And now a comment to Mr. Spice who started the rest of the thread with this:
I think you're just excited and did not get an objective impression about the country because you only visited it for 2.5 weeks
Do you really think I am so ignorant as to close my eyes to anything that wasn't good, beautiful or otherwise exemplary and leave Russia with the impression that it has no problems, that it has no troubles, that it has no evils?? Where on this earth can anyone go and have such perfection that you would never see or experience any of these negative things? Ok, duh, yes of course the north pole or the south pole, if you don't mind the numbing cold. Sorry I overlooked such an outstanding place to live, seems as though this would be perfect if you didn't mind being a hermit. Ok so you don't like the cold, ok go to the farthest reaches of the equator where there are no people. Ahh, now we are getting somewhere. WHEREVER YOU FIND PEOPLE THERE YOU WILL FIND THE LIVING OUT TO SOME DEGREE OF THE DARK NATURE OF THE HUMAN EXISTENCE.
We cannot escape it, it is everywhere we want to be to some degree. Well I could go on and on about this, but I only got out of bed to get a glass of water and I need to get up at 2:30am to get ready for work. |
Standing Ovation, I'm glad you came on here and said that you had a great time in Russia. I want desperately to see it, and I don't give a shit what anyone has to say. Cudos, buddy! Do whatever the hell you want! Life is short, so spend it living. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I attended a very International party the other night and there were only a couple of us Americans there...and I asked the question to everyone: Would you live in America full time if you could...all of them said yes and that they are amazed at life here and especially here in San Diego. Although they are proud of where they are from and would never give it up-they all just said how good the life is here. The bottom line I guess is that we make the best and most out of any situation-if we go to somewhere and we already know not to expect it to be on par with where we are from then we can be more objective about it. So when I went to Russia I tried to be as open and accepting as I could. And really do we want our world to be all the same? How boring would that be! No let's keep things different and exciting. Go to Russia and see it |
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Okanogan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Land of the Free
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | I attended a very International party the other night and there were only a couple of us Americans there...and I asked the question to everyone: Would you live in America full time if you could...all of them said yes and that they are amazed at life here and especially here in San Diego. Although they are proud of where they are from and would never give it up-they all just said how good the life is here. The bottom line I guess is that we make the best and most out of any situation-if we go to somewhere and we already know not to expect it to be on par with where we are from then we can be more objective about it. So when I went to Russia I tried to be as open and accepting as I could. And really do we want our world to be all the same? How boring would that be! No let's keep things different and exciting. Go to Russia and see it |
Life is a relative thing. Your life is not the same as my life, or anyone else's. The kind of life you have is directly related to how you see your position in the world. We all have a place where we belong in the world, in order to find that place, we must strip away all the subterfuge and see things as they really are. Negativity has no place in a happy person's life.
If I were to go to Russia, or indeed, even speak to someone about Russia, I would certainly choose the opinions of Ekaterina, over anybody's bad opinions of the place, especially if they don't even live there. The place can't be all that bad, can it. The bad things that exist there, can be found virtually everywhere in the world, so why focus on those things so much. Russian people are very kind and generous, from what I've seen, and their world doesn't revolve around baubles and trinkets. I think macroman99 has a wonderful attitude, and it's always a pleasure to listen to opinions like his. See the world, and it's people for what they are, not what you suppose them to be. I believe none of what I hear, and only half or what I see.
In the ego’s world of illusion, all things are in flux. But continuous change is constant chaos. When the ego sees itself as the center of so much swirling activity, it cannot experience cosmic harmony.
For example, what the ego considers to be a devastating hurricane is, as far as the universe is concerned, a perfectly natural event, a link in the endless chain of cause and effect. The universe, having no ego, continues its existence without rendering judgments about hurricanes or ocean breezes.
When we are empty of ego we, too, can carry on in calm acceptance of life’s varying events. When we cease making prejudicial distinctions – gentle or harsh, beautiful or ugly, good or bad – a peaceful stillness will permeate our mind. If there is no ego, there is no agitation. |
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