Way to Russia Talk Lounge

Rick · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:01 am Post subject: The Anna Politkovskaya murder

I would like to hear some people's opinions on this matter:

surfguy · Lounge Wizard Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 6996

I think it's horrible! It's amazing the motives for murder in Russia compared to the sickos we have here in the US who want to kill Amish school girls. I wonder though if it was the person who served jail time for her findings that this person bumped her off?

nikir · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:50 am Post subject:

Yes it was terrible she was a brave and outspoken woman who also played a part in negotiations during the Beslan seige. This was the second attempt on her life and I doubt if anyone will ever be brought to trial for her killing.

Rick · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject:

Well.. I doubt that too. This story just struck me, because I also compared it with motives for recent high-publicitly murders in my country. They were all in the criminal sphere.
Politically motivated murders still seem all too common in Russia. Especially an attempt on the life of someone from the press makes a really lousy impression for a country.
What it made me think of mostly, is that it seems Russia still lacks something like a civil society, people taking responsibility for what is happening in their country, instead of leaving everything to the care of government. A case like this might show the consequences of this mentality.

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 598 Location: Moscow

Chilling, very very chilling. And following on the heels of the execution of the chief Finance Minister, I'm thinking that Russia is headed in a direction that frightens me. We're outta here next year. I'm looking forward to it.

nikir · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject:

Russia has been a tumultuous country throughout its history and it looks like nothig is about to change any time soon. It still doesn't pay to be a crusader there.
I will bet that the person that carried out the execution has been disposed of as well because they were captured on video.

Rick · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject:

It'ß not always about the history: we can't say France, England or Germany were that peaceful thoughout history, or that the USA didn't have a civil war. Power has always been a main issue and will mostly be achieved through blood sweat and tears.
The people do have a choice though, to accept a situation as it is, or not. It's their labour that lifts this country economically. It's probably common people whose sweat earned the money that these contract killers were paid with.. People that can only have a voice when there is a thing like free press.

(Talking about crooks: Off to watch Catherine the Great Razz

)

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 598 Location: Moscow

I'm not Russian so it's not my problem....but there is NO free press in Putin's Russia. Need I remind you of the drive-by shooting of Forbes editor-in-chief Paul Klebnikov 2 summers ago? And he was an American.....

This Russia that I live in now is definately not the same Russia that I came to 3 years ago. I'm honestly amazed at the changes that have taken place in the few short years that I've been here. Lots of the entrepreneurship that was everywhere a couple of years ago is--gone. Vanished as quickly as it came.

Racism is bubbling to the surface everywhere; the purge against Georgians just this last week. The racially motivated bombing that killed 10 people (asians) at the Moscow Chernikovsky rynok in August. Are these becoming more common events? Therefor more dismissable as usual and trivial? Who cares?

The rapid changes for the worst that I'm witnessing under Putin scare the living daylights out of me. The Russians? They don't seem to care much as long as there are still socks to be had in the perehods and oranges at the store. They seem not to notice or care much about the oppression that is creeping up on them. They figure they've been through worse so this isn't really so bad. They could have had anything they wanted, they're in a position to rise like they've never risen before, and now they knuckle under to yet another dictatorship different from the past dictatorships only in that they have a few more creature comforts than they ever had before. And pitifully, the Russians seem almost content with that.

I dunno. I love this place and I hate it all at the same time. Russians are heartfelt and brilliant and kowtowing all at the same time. They scare me and yet I do love them. I will leave this country wishing that I could have done something, that they would have done something, that the same-old-powers-that-be hadn't been allowed to win again. Perhaps it is their fate.

nikir · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:59 am Post subject:

I was just answering Ricks post when expats rolled in and stole most of my thunder. Well put indeed.
One thing though Rick you can't really compare Russia to England, France or Germany because none of these went through the period of recent oppression that Russia did. Prior to the fall of communism they were oppressed and fed propoganda for 70 years. Then it all changed overnight.
The older generation still can't come to terms with this to a large extent and yes, as long as they have a roof over their heads and food on the table that's all that really matters to a lot of them. The apathy is really depressing but it's deeply ingrained and unfortunately by and large these murders are seen as nothing unusual if somebody tries to buck the system.
The only positive thing is that these incidents are making headlines around the world but it will be a long long time before corruption is weeded out and real freedom comes to the Russian people.

mister_wizzz · VIP Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 553

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 598 Location: Moscow

And this has what? to do with the murder of Anna Politkovskaya? d'oh!

Again, no discussion can stay on topic for even one page.

Rick · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject:

Nothing, but it's a sidepath about the general mentality in Russia towards these subjects.
I guess there must be plenty expats feeling this way you do about Russia now. I myself find it quite hard to listen to the enthousiasm of Russians about economic developments in their country against the background of these events in the news. Hard to determine also whether this country is actually emerging or going down the drain.

ps. My apologies to Catharina the great, i should not have called her a crook.

overseas_expat · VIP Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 598 Location: Moscow

Ok, sorry to be so testy.....

It's just that every time there is a decent discussion about an important Russian topic, it gets waylaid with comparisons about America or the UK or Spain. National comparisons about this is that or what is which here or there are totally useless. This is Russia. Period. It's not like anywhere else.

And I think that the boom that is being lowered on Russia--slowly and surely--are worth noting. History takes another turn. Is anybody paying attention? This is the begininning of the 21st century for Russia and Putin is taking the country in a direction totally different from that of Gorbachov and the gangsta Yeltsin. Putin is swinging heavily back to total government control while avoiding the word "communism."

A new spin on an old tradition.

I get tired of the tedious museum and restaurant and nightclub and overcoat posts. What's going on here is bigger and far more meaningful that the current nightlife in St. Petersburg. Am I the only one who gives a $hit?

Rick · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject:

Well.. it was no attack on you. Criticism is not a sin here...
What seems especially scary these days, is the accumulation of political and economical power. The old oligarchs were not as much concerned with politics as the current generation is. Centralisation of vital resources and 'strategic sectors' in the economy.. Many scary things, as this brings all the power to an even more select group of people than was the case already.

And, Overseas, about what you said about the general entrepreneurship having faded over the past few years, isn't it that there is still no serious development towards a modern services economy, but it's just the old sectors developing (oil, heavy industry, steel) leaving Russian economy greatly at the mercy of oil world market prices... It seems like a bubble...

mister_wizzz · VIP Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 553