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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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 Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I am just talking about if one has money-it's better to live in Mex or Brazil. But then again Russia might be good too. All 3 countries are corrupt. But then corruption is every where. Well for me Russia is where I want to head to. What do I know? |
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vox16
Just Starting
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparks wrote: |
Compared to their Latin American counterparts, Russia has almost no urban violence (the random type, like kidnappings, armed robberies, invasions of apartment buildings by fully armed gangs, stuff like that).
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No armed invasions? Search http://www.yandex.ru/yandsearch?stype=&nl=0&text=%E1%E0%F2%E0%EB%FC%EE%ED+%E2%EE%F1%F2%EE%EA+%F1%E0%EC%F1%EE%ED or google "samson vostok" and read how armed troops allegedly related to chechenian battalion "Vostok" raided meat-processing plant, thus resolving conflict between land owner and owner of buildings located there. Ok, maybe there actually no street murders, but then all 20 per 100.000 murders here in Russia are domestic murders - is it much better?
| Quote: | | Also, while the poor in Russia have very little, I believe there's no starvation and people at least live indoors, or the winter would take care of them. In Brazil many live in the infamous “favelas”, places that would make poor Russians living in the countryside probably flinch in fear and disgust. |
This is a matter of a weather. If climate here will be warmer I see no obstacles why some of poor here cound't live in such favelas as well. |
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Sparks
Frequent Guest
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| vox16 wrote: | | Sparks wrote: |
Compared to their Latin American counterparts, Russia has almost no urban violence (the random type, like kidnappings, armed robberies, invasions of apartment buildings by fully armed gangs, stuff like that).
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No armed invasions? Search http://www.yandex.ru/yandsearch?stype=&nl=0&text=%E1%E0%F2%E0%EB%FC%EE%ED+%E2%EE%F1%F2%EE%EA+%F1%E0%EC%F1%EE%ED or google "samson vostok" and read how armed troops allegedly related to chechenian battalion "Vostok" raided meat-processing plant, thus resolving conflict between land owner and owner of buildings located there. Ok, maybe there actually no street murders, but then all 20 per 100.000 murders here in Russia are domestic murders - is it much better? |
You misunderstood me, or maybe I didn't express myself correctly.
When I talked about armed invasions, I wasn't talking about a warlike situation such as that experienced in Chechnya.
I’m referring to urban violence. Picture this: a gang of about 40 criminals organizes themselves with submachine guns and other firearms. They then proceed to invade a residential apartment building in the center of Moscow, breaking into every apartment, tying and gagging children, women and the elder, and stealing the valuables of everyone. They do this silently, professionally and in a way people are surprised before they can react or call the authorities. After they raided each apartment, they leave before the police shows up.
Then it happens again next week in another building in the middle of Moscow. More gangs doing this organize themselves. Suddenly it’s a crisis, and it’s happening in Moscow at least once each week. It becomes part of everyday life.
This scabrous scenario is a reality in São Paulo, the largest city of Brazil. Does anything remotely close to that occur in Moscow, Saint Petersburg or Yekaterinburg? I don’t think so.
About kidnappings: you leave your apartment for work in the morning. On the way, you are stopped by armed men who take you to some hidden place in the suburbs. They proceed to call your family demanding large sums of cash. Your family doesn’t know if they will ever see you again, and maybe they never will. The victim spends days placed in dark rooms, in the middle of rats and cockroaches, receives very little or no food, and there’s no bathroom. Sometimes a finger or an ear is cut out and sent to the family.
This is the everyday reality of São Paulo, Rio, Mexico City and many other large Latin American hellholes. Every day a few cases are registered in police stations. Do we see this in Russia? No.
In São Paulo you cannot walk the streets after 7 or 8 pm without serious risks. Police authorities recommend people to advance on red lights at night to lower the possibility of being robbed by criminals.
| vox16 wrote: | | Sparks wrote: | | Also, while the poor in Russia have very little, I believe there's no starvation and people at least live indoors, or the winter would take care of them. In Brazil many live in the infamous “favelas”, places that would make poor Russians living in the countryside probably flinch in fear and disgust. |
This is a matter of a weather. If climate here will be warmer I see no obstacles why some of poor here cound't live in such favelas as well. |
I agree with you, it's the weather. But still, the fact is there are no slums in Russia. I'm sure a favela is a few steps below the worst place you can find in Russia.
Watch the film "City of God" (amazon.com, or download it with eMule). It's the Brazilian violent reality of the very poor. Compare it with Russians. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I've seen a lot of slums in Russia... |
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vox16
Just Starting
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparks wrote: |
You misunderstood me, or maybe I didn't express myself correctly.
When I talked about armed invasions, I wasn't talking about a warlike situation such as that experienced in Chechnya.
I’m referring to urban violence. Picture this: a gang of about 40 criminals organizes themselves with submachine guns and other firearms. ... After they raided each apartment, they leave before the police shows up.
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Yes, there are no such gangs in Moscow.
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About kidnappings: you leave your apartment for work in the morning. On the way, you are stopped by armed men who take you to some hidden place in the suburbs...
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50 incidents of such type were registered in Moscow in first half of 2003. Rate in other regions ( except southern federal district ) is some lower. |
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Sparks
Frequent Guest
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | I've seen a lot of slums in Russia... |
Where? I’m genuinely interested.
I'm not sure if we have the same definition of "slum" in our minds though.
A typical Brazilian slum, known as "favela", is made of irregular houses constructed with rotten pieces of wood, tin, old car parts, cans and sometimes even cardboard. With time, locals slowly replace these materials with bricks they can find in demolishion sites or that they simply steal somewhere. Very old traditional "favelas" like those in Rio nowadays look better.
There are no pipes, no plumbing, no toilet system, nothing. The roofs have leaks, and windows normally have no glass, there's just a hole. That's not a problem, since in Brazil it's never cold. Pests like rats and giant flying cockroaches populate the interior of these pseudo-houses. Obviously there are no telephones and lights normally come from illegally connected cables, but authorities don't disconnect them due to the miserable state people live in as it is. An interesting thing is doors don't have locks, so the community tends to get along well as long as not involved in drug trafficking.
The only worst places that come to mind are the typical South American prisons, one of those African mud hut shantytowns, plagued by chronic starvation, or a concentration or labor camp in war.
Now I ask you - is that to be found anywhere in Russia? I think the Russian slums you refer to stand many levels above this reality. I think of a small, old apartment with lots of people crammed up together inside, but they still have access to toilets, water pipes and a minimal standard of dignity.
What are these slums you refer to and where can they be found in Russia? |
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nikir
Frequent Guest
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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surfguy wrote:
| Quote: | | I've seen a lot of slums in Russia... |
What you regard as a slum is normal housing in the Russian cities. Compared with the western standard of housing they certainly don't come up to scratch but compare them to how people live n countries like Vietnam, the Philippines and a lot of South American countries and they are quite cozy. |
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Sparks
Frequent Guest
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| vox16 wrote: | | Sparks wrote: |
You misunderstood me, or maybe I didn't express myself correctly.
When I talked about armed invasions, I wasn't talking about a warlike situation such as that experienced in Chechnya.
I’m referring to urban violence. Picture this: a gang of about 40 criminals organizes themselves with submachine guns and other firearms. ... After they raided each apartment, they leave before the police shows up.
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Yes, there are no such gangs in Moscow.
| Quote: |
About kidnappings: you leave your apartment for work in the morning. On the way, you are stopped by armed men who take you to some hidden place in the suburbs...
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50 incidents of such type were registered in Moscow in first half of 2003. Rate in other regions ( except southern federal district ) is some lower. |
That’s interesting, I had no idea these incidents occurred in Moscow (the kidnappings). Well, it’s interesting in a bad way, unfortunately.
Still, if you register 50 incidents in a semester that leads to roughly just over 8 per month, in a city of what, 10 million?
A typical Latin American large urban center of the same size will be a lot more dramatic, with about 10 incidents of this kind every day.
On a side note, when I visited my family in Russia back in 2000, I remember one of the first things we did was walk in a group to some nearby woods, to find a place for some “shashlik”. Accustomed to the violent Brazilian reality, my sister and me were alarmed at the mere fact of walking the streets in the late hours… as we entered the woods, we got so stressed, thinking criminals could rob us, rape the girls or something, but slowly our cousins helped us understand these things are uncommon in Moscow unless you find yourself in a place full of drunk people.
We then adapted to the apparent peaceful reality. It was so surprising to be able to walk the streets at night and stuff. It was great. Come to think of it, our family must have thought we are real paranoids. lol
When my sister moved to Russia in 2004, she confirmed things are really cool if compared to Brazil. She said random attacks on people on the street don’t really happen. According to her, the criminal activities in Russia tend to concentrate in white-collar organized crime, like corruption. Sometimes there are hooligans and stuff like that, but that’s it. You agree with this? |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| I felt safe in Russia. Brazil is probably more sketchy. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Ìîñêâà, Ðîññèÿ
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Forgive me if this has been said already, I didn't start on Page 1.
The LA Times has a reputation, and this is going on 15 years now, of writing the most misinformed, ignorant garbage about Russia that is humanly possible from an actual publication.
Their correspondents tend to be idiots who either interview people via phone or spend three days in Moscow and are suddenly "experts" on Russia and feel some overwhelming desire to write false stories about Russia in general and Moscow in particular (OMFG, the $800 pen! They have gold toilets!).
The Western media has recently gone overboard with their Russophobia and their hatred of Putin; perhaps this was sparked by Politkovskaya's murder, but since there is exactly no evidence whatsoever that he had anything to do with her murder (I'm not even convinced Kadyrov ordered it!) this is insane.
Corporate media sucks across the board, but their ignorance of Russia is especially appalling. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I used to be pretty anti Putin but now having paid more attention to Russia I think that he is doing some good or at least trying to. I have a greater respect for him and I like the way in which he carries himself. I believe in free press but if the press does not represent the truth well then it is not really free. I think that there has been a lot of high profile murders in Russia lately and it does make us question what is going on, but then again we have murders all the time here in the states and maybe some of them should be a little more high profile. |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Ñîððåíòî, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| init6 wrote: | Forgive me if this has been said already, I didn't start on Page 1.
The LA Times has a reputation, and this is going on 15 years now, of writing the most misinformed, ignorant garbage about Russia that is humanly possible from an actual publication.
Their correspondents tend to be idiots who either interview people via phone or spend three days in Moscow and are suddenly "experts" on Russia and feel some overwhelming desire to write false stories about Russia in general and Moscow in particular (OMFG, the $800 pen! They have gold toilets!).
The Western media has recently gone overboard with their Russophobia and their hatred of Putin; perhaps this was sparked by Politkovskaya's murder, but since there is exactly no evidence whatsoever that he had anything to do with her murder (I'm not even convinced Kadyrov ordered it!) this is insane.
Corporate media sucks across the board, but their ignorance of Russia is especially appalling. |
Just to put my 2 cents in, Canadian media almost never bad mouths Putin. All the things I've seen have shown Russia either neutrally or in a favourable light. Every Canadian I know and speak to thinks highly of the Russian people. We know the difference between politics and people. |
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