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norge95
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 99
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 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Generation P wrote: |
Ты откуда взял экономию? О чем ты вообще хочешь говорить? О културе страны? Или о экономии? Или просто кричать о том, как Америка безумно хорошая страна? Боже, экономия, какая скука!  |
Just a friendly reminder that there are a few of us here who are just learning Russian. This is a very interesting thread and I hate to miss out on any of the discussion. "Spasibo!"  |
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norge95
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Russian opinion of America |
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| fixrim wrote: | I've been living in America and am now an American citizen after being born in Canada. I left Canada in my early twenties because where I lived there were no jobs. I've been hearing about how bad America is all my life. I was always told lots of crime, poverty, violence and just an overall bad place to live. However my experience has been very different.
I came here penniless and have acculmulated wealth far beyond what I ever could have thought possible. The opportunities here are endless. Yes this country has many, many flaws, many problems, and lots of big issue to deal with. Such is life in the world's largest economy. Many of my Canadian friends scoff at my love for this country, but its beauty, opportunity, and freedom are dear to me and I will never leave.
I don't always agree with the methods that the nation practices its foreign policy with, but at least we do something. I can well recall the Reagan years when I was told over and over Reagan was going to start a nuclear holocaust and we would surely all die! That was the prevailing wisdom in Canada at the time. I can well recall how much America was hated at that time for its policies. Say what you may, but America doesn't stand still and takes an active role in shaping the world. When American forces defeated Germany and Japan, we occupied for a time and then left. Not many invading nations "leave" the defeated country. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me Western Europe fared a little better than Eastern Europe after the war!
There are also not too many nations that people are trying to get too as hard as America. Many are dying to get here. I didn't understand why before I came, but I do now.
As for poverty, there is poverty everywhere. I have travelled to most US states, as well as extensively through Europe, and there is less poverty here than I have seen elsewhere. What I notice most here is the vast wealth. After being here as long as I have, I am still shocked at how much wealth there is here. People live well here, plain and simple. People here work hard, the rule of law is good, and things are just and fair. I know many will take exception to this post, but these are my experiences.
I am also stunned by the number of people who have never been here, don't know anyone here, yet are convinced that they know what it is like. Many of my Canadian friends told me I'd get shot or robbed or mugged if I came here! Funny thing is I don't even lock my doors!
Bush isn't well liked, but as with all presidents, he won't be here long. And the next president will likely do much that the rest of world disagrees with too. |
Welcome fixrim! Your first post here was quite good and very informative.
Just out of curiosity, where in Canada did you live and which part of the U.S. are you living in now? I've lived in California most of my life and I honestly can't remember a time when I didn't lock my doors. I've mostly lived in large cities, but I know that some of my relatives who live in more rural parts of the U.S. aren't concerned at all with locking their doors.
I can completely understand your reasons for wanting to leave the part of Canada you lived in if there weren't any jobs there. I'd be curious to know what you miss the most from Canada and also what were the most difficult aspects of relocating to the U.S. and eventually becoming a citizen here. |
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Generation-P
WayToRussified
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 316
Location: SHE WENT TO BARCELONA!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Russian opinion of America |
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| fixrim wrote: | When American forces defeated Germany and Japan, we occupied for a time and then left. Not many invading nations "leave" the defeated country. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me Western Europe fared a little better than Eastern Europe after the war!
There are also not too many nations that people are trying to get too as hard as America. Many are dying to get here. I didn't understand why before I came, but I do now.
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America defeated!  WTF Americans participated to WW2 in the end of it. At that point USSR had already fought for long time against nazis when you americans finally came to old land to tell everyone that you took over!  What were you doing to help Jewish people in Europe? Instead you were putting people of japanese origin into concentration camps in your own country! Just out of curiosity, were children of parents of japanese origin perhaps anti-US at that time? Were five year old children planning to take over your country? For heavens sake, please go on telling around the world that America won the war, you came into it too late! At the time you got into war USSR had already done most of the work. And don't go around telling scam about food and aid that you gave... You helped U.K. in magnificient way and at the same time people were starving in occupied Leningrad. Your contry did nothing to help them! In your country there were no occupied cities where people would have been dying out of hunger! Your cities weren't destroyed and you didn't loose whole generation for war. Have a little walk in Warszaw and wonder why there are mostly new buildings... Maybe most of the city was destroyed during the WW2...  Why didn't you prevent that destruction? Your country have been just so-oo helpful!
And if your country is so much for democracy, then why did you let Franco to take over Spain with little help from his friend Hitler? I suppose the Spanish democrats who were killed in Franco's prisons surely appreciate your helping hand.
I am not dying to get into your country. I am very content woth the way things are here. I like to pay taxes and I like to have free education. That is of course very selfish, because I wouldn't ever have enough money to pay for my degree. I am very pleased with the way things are here. I know that some people here expect everything to be given to them, such as work places with good benefits and luxury salary just to pop up into their lifes, still even in social welfare state you have to find your own place and make an effort to get what you want. Atleast that's the way things have been going around me. Maybe it is different if one happens to born in rich family, but not all have that advantage. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Gen P...the US entered WWII 1941 and fought until it ended in 1945. WWII Really didn't start until 1939-1940. So we were fighting durring most of it and on two fronts. Many US men volunteered into the Royal British army durring the beginning before we entered. Let's look at the situation prior to the war...America had just come out of a depression, we were still a very young and in experienced country. The war you are thinking of is WWI...that war we entered very late. OK back to WWII. The resources required to support and sustain a military...especially one that has to travel over seas...it takes time to amass such a force. You do not know what you are talking about. Now then we did not win the war...Russia was very key and bought time for europe that would allow the US to amass it's force and enter. This was crucial to the effort. Now then...everyone in the US will agree that putting the Japanese into camps was not a good thing...but understand this we also relocated Germans and Italians. And we only relocated the Japanese who lived on the coast. Pearl Harbor had been bombed and Japanese spies were responsible for all the crucial information that allowed the Japanese to pin point targets. War is a horrible thing. What did we do for the jews in Europe? Well gee how many of them are now living in the US? The full atrocities weren't even known until after the war. Regardless it was horrible...but what did europeans do. You just complained in an earlier post about how the Russians treat thier jews. I was there last year and so many Russians I came in contact with didn't favor jews. You are complaining that we allowed Franco to get in power and ask what did we do and why we didn't do something, and yet you (europeans) complain that we are trying to take the world over...Iraq etc. The fact of the matter is this...had the US not entered WWII...you all would be speaking German...there would be no jews, and the world would be a much different place. By the way...not one US leader has conducted the atrocities that Lenin, Stalin, and the Tsars, Ivan the Terrible, etc. All of these leaders have killed millions of Russians. We should all be glad that we live in the world that we do today and yes there needs to be a lot of changes made...but realize this...having these discussions in Iran...or under the Taliban/Al Queda regime...we'd be dead or in jail. So ask yourself...where are you doing? France is 30% muslim now...taken over by foriegners. Ethnic Russian population is on the decrease...which I'm sure if the average women didn't have those 13 abortions then population growth would be on the rise. There is free health care in the US, taxes are less than where you are at...but answer us all this: Have you been to the US? |
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Generation-P
WayToRussified
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 316
Location: SHE WENT TO BARCELONA!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | Now then...everyone in the US will agree that putting the Japanese into camps was not a good thing...but understand this we also relocated Germans and Italians. And we only relocated the Japanese who lived on the coast. Pearl Harbor had been bombed and Japanese spies were responsible for all the crucial information that allowed the Japanese to pin point targets. War is a horrible thing. What did we do for the jews in Europe? Well gee how many of them are now living in the US? The full atrocities weren't even known until after the war. Regardless it was horrible...but what did europeans do. |
I was mostly thinking that underground resistance movement against nazi's didn't get much help from U.S. Atleast as I have understod that. Well, anyway, I am not really professor of history, so maybe this shouldn't be my piece of cake. Europeans did do something, those who were to fight hide jews in their homes and helped them to escape the occupied countries. Yes, quite many of succeeded to get to U.S. And to Sweden through Denmark.
| surfguy wrote: |
You just complained in an earlier post about how the Russians treat thier jews. I was there last year and so many Russians I came in contact with didn't favor jews. You are complaining that we allowed Franco to get in power and ask what did we do and why we didn't do something, and yet you (europeans) complain that we are trying to take the world over...Iraq etc. The fact of the matter is this...had the US not entered WWII...you all would be speaking German...there would be no jews, and the world would be a much different place. By the way...not one US leader has conducted the atrocities that Lenin, Stalin, and the Tsars, Ivan the Terrible, etc. All of these leaders have killed millions of Russians. We should all be glad that we live in the world that we do today and yes there needs to be a lot of changes made...but realize this...having these discussions in Iran...or under the Taliban/Al Queda regime...we'd be dead or in jail. So ask yourself...where are you doing? France is 30% muslim now...taken over by foriegners. Ethnic Russian population is on the decrease...which I'm sure if the average women didn't have those 13 abortions then population growth would be on the rise. |
I am not saying that there's paradise in Europe or in Russia for that matter. I just don't like the way people write naive admiration posts about how this place is so much more better than....If you really are looking forward to create anti-US atmosphere then writing such posts is the way to do it. OF course it is good that people can have good life in U.S, concerning the fact how large your country is it would be devastating if you weren't living that good life. But still, people can live happily ever after otherwise as well. One can be happy and content, it just depends on the standards you set on happiness.
There really shouldn't be any more people on this planet. There are too much already now. Our natural resources are soon to vanish.... No more oil then... |
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mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | Gen P...the US entered WWII 1941 and fought until it ended in 1945. WWII Really didn't start until 1939-1940. So we were fighting durring most of it and on two fronts. Many US men volunteered into the Royal British army durring the beginning before we entered. Let's look at the situation prior to the war...America had just come out of a depression, we were still a very young and in experienced country. The war you are thinking of is WWI...that war we entered very late. OK back to WWII. |
US army really start fighting in Europe at the beginning of the Italy campaign in september 1943.
As for the second front, war against Japan was mainly an aero naval war far less deadly than a war on the ground.
| surfguy wrote: |
The resources required to support and sustain a military...especially one that has to travel over seas...it takes time to amass such a force. You do not know what you are talking about. Now then we did not win the war...Russia was very key and bought time for europe that would allow the US to amass it's force and enter.
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Yes that was a big contribution of the USA : the logistic.
About Russia winning time to allow US to mass troops, well it was not the main objective for sure. By the way the Italy campaign started in september 1943 and the Koursk battle ended in july 1943. Sorry, but the soviet union would have won the war without the help of the USA.
Franco understood that quickly, that's why he ordered the division Azul to go back to Spain in october 1943.
| surfguy wrote: |
This was crucial to the effort. Now then...everyone in the US will agree that putting the Japanese into camps was not a good thing...but understand this we also relocated Germans and Italians. And we only relocated the Japanese who lived on the coast. Pearl Harbor had been bombed and Japanese spies were responsible for all the crucial information that allowed the Japanese to pin point targets. War is a horrible thing.
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It was a normal behaviour, any country would have done the same.
| surfguy wrote: |
What did we do for the jews in Europe? Well gee how many of them are now living in the US? The full atrocities weren't even known until after the war. Regardless it was horrible...but what did europeans do. You just complained in an earlier post about how the Russians treat thier jews. I was there last year and so many Russians I came in contact with didn't favor jews.
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The allies knew the atrocities commited against the jews in the middle of 1942 but like Roosevelt said : the best way to save the jews is winning the war, I think he was right.
| surfguy wrote: |
You are complaining that we allowed Franco to get in power and ask what did we do and why we didn't do something, and yet you (europeans) complain that we are trying to take the world over...Iraq etc.
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USA helped Franco in a financial point of view. The stupid obsession of the communist threat pushed the US to do a lot of shameless actions. Helping Franco is one of them.
| surfguy wrote: |
The fact of the matter is this...had the US not entered WWII...you all would be speaking German...there would be no jews, and the world would be a much different place.
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Nope, we all would be speaking Russian.... Let's be a bit provocative and cynical, I wonder who from the Germans or the Russians I should thank.
To be honest, the sacrifice of the Red Army allowed western armies to limit their loss, but on the other hand the professionalism and heroism of the Germans (they were fighting 1 against 10) allowed allied forces to save western part of Europe from Staline.
| surfguy wrote: |
By the way...not one US leader has conducted the atrocities that Lenin, Stalin, and the Tsars, Ivan the Terrible, etc. All of these leaders have killed millions of Russians. We should all be glad that we live in the world that we do today and yes there needs to be a lot of changes made...but realize this...having these discussions in Iran...or under the Taliban/Al Queda regime...we'd be dead or in jail.
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Allies forces did also atrocities :
- complete destruction of Dresden in January 1945 by the british Air force : useless in a military point of view = 230 000 civilians dead.
- Hiroshima and Nagazaki bombings = only to show to the soviets USA had the atomic bomb. ANd don't tell me the official US point of view that those bombings saved one million of American soldiers from a battle on the japanese ground, we know now that the Japanese were ready to surrender, their only condition was to maintain Hiro Hito.
-> 250 000 civilian dead.
| surfguy wrote: |
So ask yourself...where are you doing? France is 30% muslim now...taken over by foriegners. Ethnic Russian population is on the decrease...which I'm sure if the average women didn't have those 13 abortions then population growth would be on the rise.
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Yes and what ?
| surfguy wrote: |
There is free health care in the US, taxes are less than where you are at...but answer us all this: Have you been to the US? |
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Free but very bad quality care. If you have a cancer in the US, cares are free ? Don't think so, they let you die.
And the quality of those free cares will decrease because Bush decided to cut in this budget to finance his war in Iraq. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | US army really start fighting in Europe at the beginning of the Italy campaign in september 1943. |
We started our Air campaigns in the spring of 1942
| Quote: | | As for the second front, war against Japan was mainly an aero naval war far less deadly than a war on the ground. |
True Europe was an Urban offense...more conventional
| Quote: | Yes that was a big contribution of the USA : the logistic.
About Russia winning time to allow US to mass troops, well it was not the main objective for sure. By the way the Italy campaign started in september 1943 and the Koursk battle ended in july 1943. Sorry, but the soviet union would have won the war without the help of the USA.
Franco understood that quickly, that's why he ordered the division Azul to go back to Spain in october 1943. |
Actually not true...Germany was very close to defeating the USSR...had it been a one on one confrontation...Germany would have annexed the USSR.
| Quote: | | It was a normal behaviour, any country would have done the same. |
True and times/thinking were different then
| Quote: | | The allies knew the atrocities commited against the jews in the middle of 1942 but like Roosevelt said : the best way to save the jews is winning the war, I think he was right. |
Yes and we did have OSS operatives in place reporting on the situation since prior to the 1940's. There was a women who was key to the underground movement and helping to get prominent jews out of europe
| Quote: | | USA helped Franco in a financial point of view. The stupid obsession of the communist threat pushed the US to do a lot of shameless actions. Helping Franco is one of them. |
True...but the threat of communism was/is a major threat
| Quote: | Nope, we all would be speaking Russian.... Let's be a bit provocative and cynical, I wonder who from the Germans or the Russians I should thank.
To be honest, the sacrifice of the Red Army allowed western armies to limit their loss, but on the other hand the professionalism and heroism of the Germans (they were fighting 1 against 10) allowed allied forces to save western part of Europe from Staline. |
The Germans had the best military, the best Generals, the best technology. Russia though was the major force in fighting the Germans. But Russia only had man power and resources well and geography. Leadership wise it was lacking. Russia suffered huge loses...as it always did in war.
| Quote: | Allies forces did also atrocities :
- complete destruction of Dresden in January 1945 by the british Air force : useless in a military point of view = 230 000 civilians dead. |
I was stating that US leaders haven't committed atrocities against thier own people...Stalin killed how many Russians?
| Quote: | - Hiroshima and Nagazaki bombings = only to show to the soviets USA had the atomic bomb. ANd don't tell me the official US point of view that those bombings saved one million of American soldiers from a battle on the japanese ground, we know now that the Japanese were ready to surrender, their only condition was to maintain Hiro Hito.
-> 250 000 civilian dead. |
[quote="surfguy"]
Yes they were on thier knees...but it did save American and Japanese
lives. The Japanese would have fought to the last person. I lived there and was married to a Japanese women...great place, great people, good country. As is Germany, and Russia, and Europe.
| Quote: | Free but very bad quality care. If you have a cancer in the US, cares are free ? Don't think so, they let you die.
And the quality of those free cares will decrease because Bush decided to cut in this budget to finance his war in Iraq |
I have free health care for life...and it is the best available. Name one country that can offer health care on the level of the US. We are a large and populated country...sure are system needs work...but health care is decent here |
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