| Author |
Message |
yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| surfguy wrote: | So for all of you who want to bash the US...come and put up...or stay and shut up  |
I agree. Especially when you don't know anything much about the place. Everyone should look in their own backyard first. There are some pretty nasty people everywhere in the world. Whats that old saying "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone " But I still don't like, or agree with George Bush. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
|
|
| Berry wrote: | Hi guys!
Recently I've created a talk launge for Ruassians living in Russia.
We discuss a viriaty of subjects over there but the hotest topic is "Why do Russians hate Americans?".
I came to the US 3 years ago and I love this country with its rules, traditions and very friendly people. But in Russia there is such a tendency: Those ones who've never been to America love to tell how bad America is, how stupid the people are..They love to tell that Americans don't know what a real friendship is, that they think only of money, popcorn and movies, that they don't read classic literature and think that II World War was won by Americans etc etc etc...........
I try to object to them, explain that they are wrong, that Americans are educated and talanted and kind...
May I ask you guys (I mean real Americans, not Russian Americans. This is very important) to write a short answer which I would translate and place in my forum.. What do YOU really know and think about Russians, russian culture, literature, why they are wrong thinking that Americans have only fake smiles and empty souls............
And why do you think SO MANY Russians would say "I hate America"? |
I went to a funeral this past summer...it was in southern Arizona. Middle of no where. Small community center...run down-dirt parking lot...old buliding. The place was filled to the max and then more. An 80 year old resident had passed away and his community came together to pay thier respects and say good. Some were friends for life some were new aquaintences, some rich some poor. Here I was coming from California...city slicker! ANd what I saw was the soul of America...hard work, community, family, ambition, genuine, ingenious, gratious, giving, heart felt warmth, honesty, simple, down to earth, giving, friendly...and just down right good people. I saw America there for sure. Here's something to think about...In Russia-the history is...this is the time when the Tartars ruled, or this was the time of Peter the great, or this was the time of the Soviet Rule, or the time of the Tsars...and with Europe it's the same thing...but here in the US our history as a country is that of it's always been a time of when the Americans ruled. And sorry when you say that we have no soul...take a look in the mirror...where is the Russian soul? A see a nation that has been ruled by corruption for hundreds of years. And what we see today is that if you want to get your way over there you have to use murder to achieve it. Bankers, Reporters, FSB agents, political figures...it's absolutely barbaric. In soviet times buildings were built like where houses...no architecture...no meaning...no soul. As some one said in these posts that there was no reward for hard work or creativity. I watched a video of a fight on a subway and everyone not just watched. I saw a girl die when I was there and her boyfriend just walked away. I'm sorry but where is the soul in that. I saw a girl get beat down and no one did anything. We don't stand for this behavior here in the US. Sure it happens but people do not put up with it. Just as we don't put up with corruption. In russia it seems as though-you put up with it and allow it. The-it's not my problem mentality.
My smiles are not fake and my passion is surfing which is all about having soul! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
|
|
| yorbcbud wrote: | | Two words. George Bush. Since everyone thinks Canadians and Americans are the same, I think my opinion is valid. Most of the world hates George Bush, and they aren't reasonable enough to separate George Bush from the American public, who, for the most part, don't like George Bush either. If you look at the aid money that America gives to the world's needy, you will see that America gives the most in aid of any country in the world. |
two words: be quiet
First of all, there has been plenti of anti-Americanism in Russia before GW Bush became president. Of course, GW Bush's actions made more people dislike the American foreign policy. However, that's not what he asked about. He was talking about stereotypes regarding friendship, how smart people are, etc. Those are well-established stereotypes in the minds of many Russians and other Europeans that pre-date GW Bush. Certainly, GW Bush's idiocy does not help to change that perception. But when Clinton was president, plently of Russians and Europeans in a variety of polls displayed quite a bit hostile feelings towards Ameriacans.
In Russia, some of it is related to the memories of cold war. Some of it is envy. Some of it is due to some cultural differences and lack of understanding about the American culture. Some of the perceptions, I think, are true, where most Americans don't consider friendship with the same level of attachment as Russians. The main reason for this is the fact that America is a very mobile country where people move from place to place many times. Also, American culture is very individualistic where people are enccourage to rely on themselves from the time they are young. So, people are very independent and that spills over to how they view friendship. Russia has a long history of collective and planned thinking and economy. People usually live in the same town and often in the same building they grew up in. So, people are very close |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
|
|
| MrSpice wrote: | | yorbcbud wrote: | | Two words. George Bush. Since everyone thinks Canadians and Americans are the same, I think my opinion is valid. Most of the world hates George Bush, and they aren't reasonable enough to separate George Bush from the American public, who, for the most part, don't like George Bush either. If you look at the aid money that America gives to the world's needy, you will see that America gives the most in aid of any country in the world. |
two words: be quiet
First of all, there has been plenti of anti-Americanism in Russia before GW Bush became president. Of course, GW Bush's actions made more people dislike the American foreign policy. However, that's not what he asked about. He was talking about stereotypes regarding friendship, how smart people are, etc. Those are well-established stereotypes in the minds of many Russians and other Europeans that pre-date GW Bush. Certainly, GW Bush's idiocy does not help to change that perception. But when Clinton was president, plently of Russians and Europeans in a variety of polls displayed quite a bit hostile feelings towards Ameriacans.
In Russia, some of it is related to the memories of cold war. Some of it is envy. Some of it is due to some cultural differences and lack of understanding about the American culture. Some of the perceptions, I think, are true, where most Americans don't consider friendship with the same level of attachment as Russians. The main reason for this is the fact that America is a very mobile country where people move from place to place many times. Also, American culture is very individualistic where people are enccourage to rely on themselves from the time they are young. So, people are very independent and that spills over to how they view friendship. Russia has a long history of collective and planned thinking and economy. People usually live in the same town and often in the same building they grew up in. So, people are very close |
Very true and valid points. Well said and I couldn't agree more. The style of living here may not be quite the same regarding friendships...but I am still best friends with those who I grw up with. But I totally agree with what you say.
However does living in the same town...same buliding...and never getting out and about...make one a little less worldly? We call this a sheltered life and certainly this happens here too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
|
|
| MrSpice wrote: |
two words: be quiet
First of all, there has been plenti of anti-Americanism in Russia before GW Bush became president. Of course, GW Bush's actions made more people dislike the American foreign policy. However, that's not what he asked about. He was talking about stereotypes regarding friendship, how smart people are, etc. Those are well-established stereotypes in the minds of many Russians and other Europeans that pre-date GW Bush. Certainly, GW Bush's idiocy does not help to change that perception. But when Clinton was president, plently of Russians and Europeans in a variety of polls displayed quite a bit hostile feelings towards Ameriacans.
In Russia, some of it is related to the memories of cold war. Some of it is envy. Some of it is due to some cultural differences and lack of understanding about the American culture. Some of the perceptions, I think, are true, where most Americans don't consider friendship with the same level of attachment as Russians. The main reason for this is the fact that America is a very mobile country where people move from place to place many times. Also, American culture is very individualistic where people are enccourage to rely on themselves from the time they are young. So, people are very independent and that spills over to how they view friendship. Russia has a long history of collective and planned thinking and economy. People usually live in the same town and often in the same building they grew up in. So, people are very close |
Four words" Shut up and read.
You are just repeating the things that I have already said. Stick to what you know. Rat and cockroach farming. You know as much about America, as you do about Quebec. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| surfguy wrote: | Well first off the friend coming to visit is not my girlfriend and she is much older than I and I am not in anyway interested in her-just a friend...perhaps if you knew spanish I was trying to say my "house is her house"...in reference to the woman visiting me. She is a friend of a friend.
|
Yes of course I understood, this is a very common sentence, by the way I heard it so many times in American movies that I found strange you made this mistake
| surfguy wrote: |
I am not yet 40 and cannot speak for the older generations and their actions 40 years ago. Also I am not from the south but have lived there there for a year. I was in the military for 12 years and worked, lived with, ate with, socialized with, and became good friends with a lot of people from all walks of life and all colors and would/have put my life in front of there's.
|
Of course you cannot speak for the previous generations but even if the official apartheid doesn't exist anymore, the apartheid still exist in people minds, the whites with the whites and the blacks with the blacks.
When I read your post I could beleive that a white equal a black, I will be curious to have the opinion of a black American.
About colored people you would/have put your life in front of there's, that's ok but in a military field it is an obvious behaviour. I was interested in Vietnam wars (french and US) and read a lot of interviews of former American soldiers and one of them was about a guy from Arkansas, KKK member who said his best friend in vietnam was a black guy.
| surfguy wrote: |
I have had serious relationships with women from different colors and nationalities. Yes I had a girlfriend who is black, I also have Dated Chinese, Philipino, Japanese, German, Finish, Dutch, Israeli, Itailian, American, Costa Rican, Elsalvadorian, Cuban, Swedish, Swiss, Polish, Kyrg, Ukrainian, Russian, Mexican, Afghani, Austrailian, Austrian, French, Brittish, Irish, Norwegian, Iranian, Korean, And Uzebek. Some of these women I had serious relationships with. Also I was married to a Japanese girl for 6 years and with her for 8. & No I am very pro European...just I get fed up with the double standards that they give off regarding the USA. Eu ros say how arrogant we are here and yet they project that which they criticize.
|
You behave very strangely, it seems you want to provide some proofs you are not racist. But who say that ? I ve never said you are racist.
By the way, girlfriends aren't valid arguments for that. Frankly, do you know some guys who will refuse to be Beyonce or Halle Berry boyfriend, racists included ?
| surfguy wrote: |
No I am very pro European...just I get fed up with the double standards that they give off regarding the USA. Eu ros say how arrogant we are here and yet they project that which they criticize.
|
Ok, but I have to say some of your posts were quite shocking. For instance putting Hugo Chavez and Bin Laden in the same bag can irritate a lot of people.
| surfguy wrote: |
I visited Russia only to have Russian men say to me after I walked in with several women how they hate me and calling me names...I never said a word to them...but after 15 minutes of finding out more about me we were all best buddies downing vodka and all of them wanting to come here or make business connections, and asking me how to get jobs here. And the girls I was with-we all had a great time.
|
Alcohol... what a fantastic drug...
| surfguy wrote: |
KKK is such a joke over here...it's comedy at best and here in most states it doesn't really exist. We have far worse organizations that are with in all ethnicities here. Anti everything. There is a lot to like about europe just as there is a lot to like about the US. I have a great deal of friends who are european. Good friends at that.
|
I agree, racism has no color and I ve never said there is nothing to like about the US.
| surfguy wrote: |
Put it this way I have been PM by a few members here who all have said how rediculous some of you people are with your attitudes about Americans. I am American and there is still so much I don't even know about here...one of the threads we ended up talking about the different accents here in the US. Spice's experience in NY is far diffierent from mine here in San Diego...he is recent immigrant...so this is an example-All I know is that NY is a huge city and the financial capital of the world, San Diego is a resort city on the Mexico boarder...sun and waves. Totally different life styles, different people, different perspectives...so how can any of us posting here truly state what America is really like? Can't do it here.
|
Yes, that's right, some posts here which critizes USA are ridiculous but many critics are true. It is obvious you cannot generalize on a country which counts more than 300 millions of inhabitants but most of the attacks on Bush administration are justified, Iraqi catastrophe is a good example.
| surfguy wrote: |
So with Europe-Europe from my understanding is more centric then the US...and this is the huge difference. I went to St Pete and said wow...I didn't realize that white be came in such variety! Here in Claifornia we are way more diverse. I am a minority here. But I can go to South Dakota and be in the majority. So for all of you who want to bash the US...come and put up...or stay and shut up |
Sorry, may be it is because I don't master English language well enough but I didn't understand what you wanted to explain ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Berry
Just Starting
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
thank you so much!
feel free to add anything you think is important.
One more question/
What about Second World War? Do Americans really think that this war was won by the US not the Soviet Union? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Yes of course I understood, this is a very common sentence, by the way I heard it so many times in American movies that I found strange you made this mistake |
I made no mistake I meant how I stated it. "My house is her house"
| Quote: | Of course you cannot speak for the previous generations but even if the official apartheid doesn't exist anymore, the apartheid still exist in people minds, the whites with the whites and the blacks with the blacks.
When I read your post I could beleive that a white equal a black, I will be curious to have the opinion of a black American.
About colored people you would/have put your life in front of there's, that's ok but in a military field it is an obvious behaviour. I was interested in Vietnam wars (french and US) and read a lot of interviews of former American soldiers and one of them was about a guy from Arkansas, KKK member who said his best friend in vietnam was a black guy. |
Don't get me wrong-we still have a lot of racial tensions...but people are more open I think today and where as before you might question if black and white hang out together...today it is far more accepted. Than years past.
Yes durring the Vietnam war and prior...our military was very segregated...not it's far isolated cases.
For me I don't like the bad stereotypes of any race, culture, or society. We can find good and bad in everything. The stereotypical cracker is exactly that...a cracker! We have white trash, black trash, mexican trash, Euro trash...etc.etc. and there are many other words to describe these people. It's a behavior and a mentality that we are talking about. People need to distinguish between this and race. We all have no control over the race that we are...the color of our skin...etc. But we can control our behavior and our actions and our thinking.
| Quote: |
Ok, but I have to say some of your posts were quite shocking. For instance putting Hugo Chavez and Bin Laden in the same bag can irritate a lot of people. |
Why...both these two guys are whackos! So that makes them alike. And Chavez supports Osama.
| Quote: | | Sorry, may be it is because I don't master English language well enough but I didn't understand what you wanted to explain ... |
I tend to rush my english and writing...and then not proof read. When in St Pete there are so many different white people and so comparing it to California...here I just group the whites together and take us for granted. This is because we have so many other ethnicities here that we tend to over look our own color. I see more hispanic, black, asian, and other ethnicities that I am not in the majority here. Where as in St Pete-It was all white there...like 99%. I'm sure in Vladivostok it's a different story. If I was to go to a central interior state like North Dakota...the population is all white for the most part, and that too would be unusual for me.
| Quote: | | Yes, that's right, some posts here which critizes USA are ridiculous but many critics are true. It is obvious you cannot generalize on a country which counts more than 300 millions of inhabitants but most of the attacks on Bush administration are justified, Iraqi catastrophe is a good example. |
I think with Iraq none of us can truly comment unless we are there...and really none of us will no the outcome until years from now...we need to give it more time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Berry wrote: | thank you so much!
feel free to add anything you think is important.
One more question/
What about Second World War? Do Americans really think that this war was won by the US not the Soviet Union? |
Well. you will hear a lot of opinions on that one. America took two years to even enter that war, but the truth is that we ALL won that war. Every country that fought against Germany and Japan won that war. All our countries paid with the lives of our citizens, and soldiers, so lets not even go there. Most Americans know better than to say that they won that war. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| surfguy wrote: | | I think with Iraq none of us can truly comment unless we are there...and really none of us will no the outcome until years from now |
Oh, I think we can comment on Iraq. It was stupid to go there. Even Bush has started to eat crow and admit it was wrong. We don't need to wait for an outcome to say it was wrong. You can't possibly believe that Iraq was a good thing. Thats delusional. It has destabilized the entire middle east, period. I can't wait till Bush has to deal with Iran and Syria, something he swore he'd never do. I'm gonna chuckle about that one.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yorbcbud wrote: |
Well. you will hear a lot of opinions on that one. America took two years to even enter that war, but the truth is that we ALL won that war. Every country that fought against Germany and Japan won that war. All our countries paid with the lives of our citizens, and soldiers, so lets not even go there. Most Americans know better than to say that they won that war. |
The former Soviet Union lost more than 20 million people in the World War II. And in Russia, serving in the army was not an option, it was mandatory. Most Americans that fought in the World War II were volunteers. And the number of casualties on the US size was much much smaller. America certainly played a key role in the war. But it's Europe that sufferred and was affected more than any other part of the world. American cities were not bombed like so many European ones. Therefore, most Americans, especially the younger generation, does not really know much about that war. It was also overshadowed in the US by the Vietnam war that happened later on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well the French certainly didn't win it. My view and understanding...which was recently changed. There is no way that the western front could have been won without Russia...just no way. Russia paid a heavy price to buy time in order for the US to enter. And actually let's take this back to WWI. At that time the US was such a young and naive country...we had really no military experience what so ever. And so between WW1 and WW2 we had a lot to learn and a lot to build on. Which is amazing that in such a short amount of time we were able to do so. For everyone in WW1 the armies were using old school tactics to combat new technologies and so many lessons were learned. By WW2 the US had a huge challenge of logisitics which even today there really is no other army that can rapidly deploy what the US can and did...not even Russia! And not even China. Naval Power is key...especially back in ww2 where we had to fight on two fronts and move armies accross two huge oceans. Certainly no other nation could have done that at the time and not presently either. Sit back and ponder this...it's truly unbelievable! So had we not had to fight Japan...just think of what we could have devoted to Europe. We rebuilt Germany, Rebuilt Japan, helped Europe to rebuild...and look at what they are now. But no...as BC said we all did our part and we all plaid a heavy price. Truly that was the greatest generation mankind has ever seen. And whether they are Russian, American, Canadian, British, whoever. We are all forever in debt. And here I am from a newer generation and I hold no grudge...This is what is great too...there is no hate towards the Japanese or the Germans. But Terrorists-that's a different story!
Americans do not think that we won the war soley...however we all know that had we not entered the world would be a far different place today. I have a greater interest in and appreciation of Russian military history. But I can say this...if America wanted to we could have secured most of Eastern Europe had we wanted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Berry wrote: | thanks guys for your replies but you didn't get the point.
nobody disclaim the fact that Americans help poor people, give them work and home and privide them with a high standart of life.
Russians think that all these is the only thing Americans care about.
Money, money aid, world reputation.
They say that Americans have nothing in their souls, they have poor culture which is Hollywood movies, McDonald's. They say that if an American has a problem he talks to a specialist not to a friend as Russians do.
Can you tell guys what a real American friendship is?
They say that American culture has everything for one's eyes (movies), stomach (food) and body (sport) but has nothing for one's soul. No spiritual life, no cultural wealth.. |
I just think Russians and any European country and whoever I left out needs to take a trip to America and just find out for themselves and see that us Americans have soul and lots of it..spiritual...ect...I get so sick of hearing all the hog sh-t from people who do nothing but judge others by the corrupt bullsh-t that goes on with these politicians and a few bad impressions.... that doesn't make a final impression.....visit America and see for yourself..Because a few people may have had a bad experience with a person or a few people doesn't make us narcistic and self-centered...I live in a Kentucky and yes we still have the KKK, but every country has a group of A--holes who want to rain on somebody's parade. It is not like it was years ago...things change just like the cold war in Russia..communism ect...you cannot judge a country by some of its shi--y past....corrupt politicians...hate groups, terrorists....ect are a small majority of people who TRY to give the worst impression of a country....the hard working citizens are the ones who make a country...I said this in another thread "Don't knock it until you try it", but "Dont Knock US Until You Try US".....Maybe I don't have anything bad to say because I try to find the good in everything...this is why you men need women in your lives to knock some sense in your fat heads....You sit there and try to make sense of everything but you don't it does nothing but start arguments and wars and that is why we are in the mess we are in today...too many people butting heads and no common sense or collaboration....and if I pissed some of you off, oh well...start making post without critizing everyone and you won't hear it from me....I wanna read something worth while...not from a bunch of men who do nothing but disagree with each other....
this is just my thoughts on all your post...  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jo jo 7 wrote: | I just think Russians and any European country and whoever I left out needs to take a trip to America and just find out for themselves and see that us Americans have soul and lots of it..spiritual...ect...I get so sick of hearing all the hog sh-t from people who do nothing but judge others by the corrupt bullsh-t that goes on with these politicians and a few bad impressions.... that doesn't make a final impression.....visit America and see for yourself..Because a few people may have had a bad experience with a person or a few people doesn't make us narcistic and self-centered...I live in a Kentucky and yes we still have the KKK, but every country has a group of A--holes who want to rain on somebody's parade. It is not like it was years ago...things change just like the cold war in Russia..communism ect...you cannot judge a country by some of its shi--y past....corrupt politicians...hate groups, terrorists....ect are a small majority of people who TRY to give the worst impression of a country....the hard working citizens are the ones who make a country...I said this in another thread "Don't knock it until you try it", but "Dont Knock US Until You Try US".....Maybe I don't have anything bad to say because I try to find the good in everything...this is why you men need women in your lives to knock some sense in your fat heads....You sit there and try to make sense of everything but you don't it does nothing but start arguments and wars and that is why we are in the mess we are in today...too many people butting heads and no common sense or collaboration....and if I pissed some of you off, oh well...start making post without critizing everyone and you won't hear it from me....I wanna read something worth while...not from a bunch of men who do nothing but disagree with each other....
this is just my thoughts on all your post... |
BOO YAH. You go girl!!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
