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Berry
Just Starting
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Location: USA
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 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: Russians & Americans |
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Hi guys!
Recently I've created a talk launge for Ruassians living in Russia.
We discuss a viriaty of subjects over there but the hotest topic is "Why do Russians hate Americans?".
I came to the US 3 years ago and I love this country with its rules, traditions and very friendly people. But in Russia there is such a tendency: Those ones who've never been to America love to tell how bad America is, how stupid the people are..They love to tell that Americans don't know what a real friendship is, that they think only of money, popcorn and movies, that they don't read classic literature and think that II World War was won by Americans etc etc etc...........
I try to object to them, explain that they are wrong, that Americans are educated and talanted and kind...
May I ask you guys (I mean real Americans, not Russian Americans. This is very important) to write a short answer which I would translate and place in my forum.. What do YOU really know and think about Russians, russian culture, literature, why they are wrong thinking that Americans have only fake smiles and empty souls............
And why do you think SO MANY Russians would say "I hate America"? |
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nikir
Frequent Guest
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| I won't reply because I'm not American. I would like to read your forum though. Can you PM the link? |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Ñîððåíòî, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
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Two words. George Bush. Since everyone thinks Canadians and Americans are the same, I think my opinion is valid. Most of the world hates George Bush, and they aren't reasonable enough to separate George Bush from the American public, who, for the most part, don't like George Bush either. If you look at the aid money that America gives to the world's needy, you will see that America gives the most in aid of any country in the world. Does that seem like the actions of a greedy nation, that only cares about money?
I am going to guess that most of the bad opinions that Russians have of the west, come from the cold war times. It also goes both ways. In the cold war era, Russia was accused of being the evil red machine that wanted to destroy the west and run the world. Most average Russians haven't a clue about what the west is really like, and I'm sure many are jealous of the freedoms that we enjoy over here, and the good life a person can have over here. Even the poor people are fat and have cars and tvs etc etc. Sometimes its easier to hate something when you don't understand it. Rather small minded, but often true. It would be difficult to find a person in the west who hates Russians. IMHO |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
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| yorbcbud wrote: | Two words. George Bush. Since everyone thinks Canadians and Americans are the same, I think my opinion is valid. Most of the world hates George Bush, and they aren't reasonable enough to separate George Bush from the American public, who, for the most part, don't like George Bush either. If you look at the aid money that America gives to the world's needy, you will see that America gives the most in aid of any country in the world. Does that seem like the actions of a greedy nation, that only cares about money?
I am going to guess that most of the bad opinions that Russians have of the west, come from the cold war times. It also goes both ways. In the cold war era, Russia was accused of being the evil red machine that wanted to destroy the west and run the world. Most average Russians haven't a clue about what the west is really like, and I'm sure many are jealous of the freedoms that we enjoy over here, and the good life a person can have over here. Even the poor people are fat and have cars and tvs etc etc. Sometimes its easier to hate something when you don't understand it. Rather small minded, but often true. It would be difficult to find a person in the west who hates Russians. IMHO |
Well put and as stated previously...I love Bush! George Bush is ok too but I think he tries too hard to please everyone. But then again I'm known to please the Bush too.       |
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Groobs
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 83
Location: China (but missing St Pete!)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Sorry Berry, but I will not respect your “only real Americans can reply” idea on this Board…… discard my opinion by all means, but don’t try and stop me giving it 
I live in Russia, and have had an American (yes, a “real” one) staying in my apartment for about 3 months now, so I have observed the interplay of Russians (mainly cute girls in clubs, it must be said….) and him from close quarters. My main observation on the differences this exposes, aside from the quality of the dentistry, is that Russians really resent the “holier than thou” arrogance of the US seeking to spread “freedom and democracy” based on its (wholly flawed and corrupt IMHO) model.
Now, granted, from a country which, as the USSR, tried to spread its brand of communism during the cold war, that’s a bit rich, but it does seem to underlie the tension in US/Russian relationships.
Russians also consider themselves, with good reason, to be well educated – and yes, you DO see many many Russians reading novels on the Metro, and I have not seen that so much in my time in US cities. Hardly conclusive tho. Ask any Russian about the allegorical ideas in Bulgakov’s Master & Margarita and they can all talk to you in detail about it (compulsory in school I guess!) but that does not necessarily make them BETTER educated than Americans, just with a different emphasis. That said, Americans do tend to display a simplistic view of the world and its geopolitics that can take your breath away at times,,,,,,,
Russians also now seem to revel in their new wealth – there was an almost palpable glee amongst some of my Russian friends when the dollar plunged below 26 Rubles on the exchange kiosk boards on Nevsky last week (now clawed its way up to 26 and a fraction, I see) and they do seem to be (some might say obscenely) fond of conspicuously displaying their new wealth, but given the state of the country's economy and most people’s daily lives 10-15 years ago here, that’s perhaps forgivable for a while yet.
And yes, Russia is flexing its oil and gas muscle, and enjoying being taken seriously on a world stage. No doubt Putin is going too far in some of his excesses, Georgia, relations with Ukraine, Moldova etc, and for sure he has savagely rolled back the spread of what I would call “real” democracy, in favour of his chosen ones and the interests of the natural resources elite, and has limited press freedom way too much. But I guess we have to hope for the pendulum to swing back a little on that one. That said, Russians sneer at the Iraq disaster, and laughingly ask what model of democracy is that, and they have a point…..
So there you go, a few random thoughts on this one…… |
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mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
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| yorbcbud wrote: | | Two words. George Bush. Since everyone thinks Canadians and Americans are the same, I think my opinion is valid. |
I don't think I will offend you if I say that you will not find a single person in Europe who think Americans (from USA) and canadians are the same Anyway, your opinion is valid
| yorbcbud wrote: | | Most of the world hates George Bush, and they aren't reasonable enough to separate George Bush from the American public, who, for the most part, don't like George Bush either. |
Yes, at least American people who didn't vote for him. By the way, I cannot understand how Americans who feel so proud of being American could have voted for a guy who did everything (with success) to avoid his duty during the Vietnam war.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | If you look at the aid money that America gives to the world's needy, you will see that America gives the most in aid of any country in the world. Does that seem like the actions of a greedy nation, that only cares about money? |
Yes, USA give aid to the world's needy but if you compare this aid to US GDP it represents less than 0.2%. Almost all western countries (except Italy) give much more than the US do.
So you are wrong about US generosity.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | I am going to guess that most of the bad opinions that Russians have of the west, come from the cold war times. It also goes both ways. In the cold war era, Russia was accused of being the evil red machine that wanted to destroy the west and run the world. Most average Russians haven't a clue about what the west is really like, |
Yes, during the cold war USSR was considered by the westerners like Evil and they were right. USSR wanted to rule the world with an aim : make the whole world communist. And I have to thank USA because after WWII West Europe wasn't strong enough to stop a soviet invasion wich surely would have occured if US troops went back home.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | and I'm sure many are jealous of the freedoms that we enjoy over here, and the good life a person can have over here. |
May be yes, but I think it is corruption the main evil in Russia, and Russians are probably jealous of "meritocratie", most of Russians know they cannot get anything according to their merit.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | Even the poor people are fat and have cars and tvs etc etc. Sometimes its easier to hate something when you don't understand it. Rather small minded, but often true. It would be difficult to find a person in the west who hates Russians. IMHO |
Yes and what ? Being fat in America often mean you are poor. Is it important in your life having a TV and a car if you are treated like a crap in your own country ? |
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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
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| mister_wizzz wrote: | | yorbcbud wrote: | | Two words. George Bush. Since everyone thinks Canadians and Americans are the same, I think my opinion is valid. |
I don't think I will offend you if I say that you will not find a single person in Europe who think Americans (from USA) and canadians are the same Anyway, your opinion is valid
| yorbcbud wrote: | | Most of the world hates George Bush, and they aren't reasonable enough to separate George Bush from the American public, who, for the most part, don't like George Bush either. |
Yes, at least American people who didn't vote for him. By the way, I cannot understand how Americans who feel so proud of being American could have voted for a guy who did everything (with success) to avoid his duty during the Vietnam war.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | If you look at the aid money that America gives to the world's needy, you will see that America gives the most in aid of any country in the world. Does that seem like the actions of a greedy nation, that only cares about money? |
Yes, USA give aid to the world's needy but if you compare this aid to US GDP it represents less than 0.2%. Almost all western countries (except Italy) give much more than the US do.
So you are wrong about US generosity.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | I am going to guess that most of the bad opinions that Russians have of the west, come from the cold war times. It also goes both ways. In the cold war era, Russia was accused of being the evil red machine that wanted to destroy the west and run the world. Most average Russians haven't a clue about what the west is really like, |
Yes, during the cold war USSR was considered by the westerners like Evil and they were right. USSR wanted to rule the world with an aim : make the whole world communist. And I have to thank USA because after WWII West Europe wasn't strong enough to stop a soviet invasion wich surely would have occured if US troops went back home.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | and I'm sure many are jealous of the freedoms that we enjoy over here, and the good life a person can have over here. |
May be yes, but I think it is corruption the main evil in Russia, and Russians are probably jealous of "meritocratie", most of Russians know they cannot get anything according to their merit.
| yorbcbud wrote: | | Even the poor people are fat and have cars and tvs etc etc. Sometimes its easier to hate something when you don't understand it. Rather small minded, but often true. It would be difficult to find a person in the west who hates Russians. IMHO |
Yes and what ? Being fat in America often mean you are poor. Is it important in your life having a TV and a car if you are treated like a crap in your own country ? |
Take a trip to Eastern Kentucky and you won't see poor people, you see dirt poor people with nothing and no running water...walk miles to get water from a pond or river...very needy people there...no TV's, they don't have time because the women cook, clean and take care of children and the fathers work in Coal Mines, all day....
Yes, not too many people dislike Russians, I think Russians are very wonderful people...kind and thoughtful..and would give their shirts off their backs just like southern americans... |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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America is everything! I have a friend who came here from St Pete with no money about 7 years ago. The US gov gave him an education and he now has a PHd and makes over six figures a year...tlk about opportunity! I also have another friend who came from Azerbaijan with just $100 for six people and couldn't speak a word of english...she received government assistance...now 10 years later she owns 3 houses, has a good job and her kids are in college. Arnold Swartzennaeger came here with $60.00 and now is the Govenor of California and worth 800 million.
America iseverything! We are super rich, dirt poor, generous and stingy, conservative/liberal, overweigth and too thin, corrupt and yet law abiding, we are multi national, religious and not religious, We have the best looking women in the world...and well also some maybe not so good looking. The bottom line is...we are the world...the world created us...the world came to us and when it comes to history no other Nation in 6000 years has risen to the level of greatness that the UNITED STATES has in just 200 years.
We may not win political wars...but every battle that the US commits to we win. You can hate Bush but he's only in office for 8 years and that's it...so why waste 8 years worrying about him...go out and become the US president...at least here you have that opportunity. Look at Clinton he proved anyone can become President. We take on Hurricanes, Sunamis, Tornadoes, Earth Quakes. We come back and re build when our buildings are toppled.
Oil rules the world and and yet the oil funds are U.S. dollars...not rubles, not pounds, not yen, not any other currency...dollars! If you think this isn't true then wake up!
So as I said before...if you don't like the US don't come to here and don't ask for our help. If you like the US but want to make a change...then make the change. If you are here and hate us...kindly leave. If you are here and like it...please stay and enjoy all that we have. And if you want to come to here then get in line. More people apply to come to here every year then to any other place on the planet. More people try to come here everyday illegally and I'd have to say 99.9% of people don't want to leave! |
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mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
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| jo jo 7 wrote: |
Yes, not too many people dislike Russians, I think Russians are very wonderful people...kind and thoughtful..and would give their shirts off their backs just like southern americans... [/b] |
It is a generalization, you'd better go first before making such opinion.
Russians will probably behave kindly with you but would it be the case if you are looking like Georgian, Chenchen more generally Caucasian ?
The same with southern Americans. Would they give their shirts off their backs if you are black ?
I don't know how are people in Kentucky but I remember that one of my friend living in Phoenix told me that it was not good being French in Arizona at the beginning of Irak war.
He is totally fluent in english but he didn't dare talking in public for months because of the worry that Americans could detect his accent. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
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| mister_wizzz wrote: | | jo jo 7 wrote: |
Yes, not too many people dislike Russians, I think Russians are very wonderful people...kind and thoughtful..and would give their shirts off their backs just like southern americans... [/b] |
It is a generalization, you'd better go first before making such opinion.
Russians will probably behave kindly with you but would it be the case if you are looking like Georgian, Chenchen more generally Caucasian ?
The same with southern Americans. Would they give their shirts off their backs if you are black ?
I don't know how are people in Kentucky but I remember that one of my friend living in Phoenix told me that it was not good being French in Arizona at the beginning of Irak war.
He is totally fluent in english but he didn't dare talking in public for months because of the worry that Americans could detect his accent. |
Don't relate that the south is anti black...southern states have huge black populations and white and blacks interact on a far mor communal basis than you are aware of. New Orleans is a prime example of people giving the shirts off thier backs-regardless of color. Most racism after the civil war was from the northern states. A lot of Americans were anti French and still are...I'm anti French to some degree...I'm anti anything that I don't agree with. But also I try to treat people individually...a good person who is from France is still a good person. A good chechnyan person is still a good person. I have a Russian friend coming to visit next week for 3 months...mi casa es ella casa! |
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mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
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| surfguy wrote: |
Don't relate that the south is anti black...southern states have huge black populations and white and blacks interact on a far mor communal basis than you are aware of. |
Of course southern states have huge black populations, they used to be the slavery states. Yes, Whites and blacks interacts in public places but what about forty years ago when the seats in buses were reserved to whites only ?
And what about the KKK ? It is still very strong in some southern states.
| surfguy wrote: |
New Orleans is a prime example of people giving the shirts off thier backs-regardless of color.
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Yes hurricane Katrina was a fantastic proof of what you are saying. All the broadcasts I saw showed only black people in hopeless situation.
| surfguy wrote: |
Most racism after the civil war was from the northern states.
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Including Abraham Lincoln...
| surfguy wrote: |
A lot of Americans were anti French and still are...I'm anti French to some degree...
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Well according to the posts I read from you, especially from your "discussion" with Xela (if I can call this a discussion), you are more globally anti European.
| surfguy wrote: |
I'm anti anything that I don't agree with. But also I try to treat people individually...a good person who is from France is still a good person. A good chechnyan person is still a good person. I have a Russian friend coming to visit next week for 3 months...mi casa es ella casa! |
As for me I behave exactly in the opposite way, I consider that everybody is good and after I reject the bad ones (people who are harmful not necessary people I don't agree with).
About your Russian guest, well... I guess "she" is a Russian friend . If this girl is your girlfriend or you want her to become your girlfriend, I am sorry, it is not a proof of your hospitality, like the French say : "Ca ne compte pas".
One more thing, I cannot teach you anything in English but I can correct your spanish : "mi casa es su casa", "ella" in spanish means "she". |
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Berry
Just Starting
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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thanks guys for your replies but you didn't get the point.
nobody disclaim the fact that Americans help poor people, give them work and home and privide them with a high standart of life.
Russians think that all these is the only thing Americans care about.
Money, money aid, world reputation.
They say that Americans have nothing in their souls, they have poor culture which is Hollywood movies, McDonald's. They say that if an American has a problem he talks to a specialist not to a friend as Russians do.
Can you tell guys what a real American friendship is?
They say that American culture has everything for one's eyes (movies), stomach (food) and body (sport) but has nothing for one's soul. No spiritual life, no cultural wealth.. |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Ñîððåíòî, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Russians & Americans |
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| mister_wizzz wrote: | | surfguy wrote: |
Don't relate that the south is anti black...southern states have huge black populations and white and blacks interact on a far mor communal basis than you are aware of. |
Of course southern states have huge black populations, they used to be the slavery states. Yes, Whites and blacks interacts in public places but what about forty years ago when the seats in buses were reserved to whites only ?
And what about the KKK ? It is still very strong in some southern states.
| surfguy wrote: |
New Orleans is a prime example of people giving the shirts off thier backs-regardless of color.
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Yes hurricane Katrina was a fantastic proof of what you are saying. All the broadcasts I saw showed only black people in hopeless situation.
| surfguy wrote: |
Most racism after the civil war was from the northern states.
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Including Abraham Lincoln...
| surfguy wrote: |
A lot of Americans were anti French and still are...I'm anti French to some degree...
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Well according to the posts I read from you, especially from your "discussion" with Xela (if I can call this a discussion), you are more globally anti European.
| surfguy wrote: |
I'm anti anything that I don't agree with. But also I try to treat people individually...a good person who is from France is still a good person. A good chechnyan person is still a good person. I have a Russian friend coming to visit next week for 3 months...mi casa es ella casa! |
As for me I behave exactly in the opposite way, I consider that everybody is good and after I reject the bad ones (people who are harmful not necessary people I don't agree with).
About your Russian guest, well... I guess "she" is a Russian friend . If this girl is your girlfriend or you want her to become your girlfriend, I am sorry, it is not a proof of your hospitality, like the French say : "Ca ne compte pas".
One more thing, I cannot teach you anything in English but I can correct your spanish : "mi casa es su casa", "ella" in spanish means "she". |
Well I can agree with much of what you say, and personally I don't think we are the same as Americans, except in lifestyles, and general stuff. I have seen racism all the way up to the canadian border in the west. My ex's sister in law once said that "God should have left the tails on them monkeys" referring obviously to blacks. It sounded filthy out of her mouth.
I never checked the figures on American aid, so I can't dispute that. It was always my perception that Americans give a lot of money.
There are really very few " dirt poor" people in Canada, because we have better social programs than America. If you have no water or health care here, its because you don't want it. We have the largest ( or it seems so ) percentage of Ukrainian, Russian, Lebanese, Chinese etc etc immigrants, and we are striving to bring more people over here, even going so far as to relax our immigration laws, at a time when America is tightening theirs. Now Canadians are going to have to show passports at the border just to go into the states for a visit. But you said yourself that you choose to think everyone is good, and I choose this as well. So having said that, I think the majority of Americans are good and generous people. Everybody can make bad decisions. George Bush is one of them. But in 08 he's gone and I'm hoping for a Democrat in office to repair the damage he's done. |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Ñîððåíòî, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Berry wrote: | thanks guys for your replies but you didn't get the point.
nobody disclaim the fact that Americans help poor people, give them work and home and privide them with a high standart of life.
Russians think that all these is the only thing Americans care about.
Money, money aid, world reputation.
They say that Americans have nothing in their souls, they have poor culture which is Hollywood movies, McDonald's. They say that if an American has a problem he talks to a specialist not to a friend as Russians do.
Can you tell guys what a real American friendship is?
They say that American culture has everything for one's eyes (movies), stomach (food) and body (sport) but has nothing for one's soul. No spiritual life, no cultural wealth.. |
Well personally my idea of friendship, is to help the seniors in my area whenever they need anything, I bring them firewood, fix their vehicles, clean snow from their driveways, and just generally listen to them when they want someone to talk to. I help the little old ladies with their gardens.
There are plenty of things for the soul, all you have to do is look around, but my good feelings come more from helping people in their everyday life, and refusing payment for it. Perhaps Americans just feel that a specialist is better qualified to provide them with the help they need. The average person isn't really qualified to help with phsyological issues. I doubt that they are in Russia either. Sometimes friendship isn't enough to solve serious issues. But there are many friends who will just listen to you when you want to get something off your chest. Soul is what you make it. There is plenty of culture and spiritual support in America. I think thats a silly, and uninformed perception, to think that Americans have less soul than a Russian. We are dealing with people here, and people are people no matter where they live. There are some pretty nasty peopl in Russia as well as America. It's not a fair comparison. They are not even remotely alike, so how can you compare the two countries on a spiritual level. If Russians are all so kind and generous, the why is there an epidemic of scammers tryin to steal money from Americans? You are generalizing, and it's simply not fair. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well first off the friend coming to visit is not my girlfriend and she is much older than I and I am not in anyway interested in her-just a friend...perhaps if you knew spanish I was trying to say my "house is her house"...in reference to the woman visiting me. She is a friend of a friend. I am not yet 40 and cannot speak for the older generations and their actions 40 years ago. Also I am not from the south but have lived there there for a year. I was in the military for 12 years and worked, lived with, ate with, socialized with, and became good friends with a lot of people from all walks of life and all colors and would/have put my life in front of there's. I have had serious relationships with women from different colors and nationalities. Yes I had a girlfriend who is black, I also have Dated Chinese, Philipino, Japanese, German, Finish, Dutch, Israeli, Itailian, American, Costa Rican, Elsalvadorian, Cuban, Swedish, Swiss, Polish, Kyrg, Ukrainian, Russian, Mexican, Afghani, Austrailian, Austrian, French, Brittish, Irish, Norwegian, Iranian, Korean, And Uzebek. Some of these women I had serious relationships with. Also I was married to a Japanese girl for 6 years and with her for 8. & No I am very pro European...just I get fed up with the double standards that they give off regarding the USA. Eu ros say how arrogant we are here and yet they project that which they criticize.
I visited Russia only to have Russian men say to me after I walked in with several women how they hate me and calling me names...I never said a word to them...but after 15 minutes of finding out more about me we were all best buddies downing vodka and all of them wanting to come here or make business connections, and asking me how to get jobs here. And the girls I was with-we all had a great time.
KKK is such a joke over here...it's comedy at best and here in most states it doesn't really exist. We have far worse organizations that are with in all ethnicities here. Anti everything. There is a lot to like about europe just as there is a lot to like about the US. I have a great deal of friends who are european. Good friends at that.
Put it this way I have been PM by a few members here who all have said how rediculous some of you people are with your attitudes about Americans. I am American and there is still so much I don't even know about here...one of the threads we ended up talking about the different accents here in the US. Spice's experience in NY is far diffierent from mine here in San Diego...he is recent immigrant...so this is an example-All I know is that NY is a huge city and the financial capital of the world, San Diego is a resort city on the Mexico boarder...sun and waves. Totally different life styles, different people, different perspectives...so how can any of us posting here truly state what America is really like? Can't do it here.
So with Europe-Europe from my understanding is more centric then the US...and this is the huge difference. I went to St Pete and said wow...I didn't realize that white be came in such variety! Here in Claifornia we are way more diverse. I am a minority here. But I can go to South Dakota and be in the majority. So for all of you who want to bash the US...come and put up...or stay and shut up |
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