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Contraception=abortion? Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Way to Russia Talk Lounge Forum Index -> Russian People

Author	Message
jo-jo-7 Just Starting Joined: 16 Mar 2010 Posts: 6	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject: MrSpice wrote: jo jo 7 wrote: America has a "middle ground" on how much you can do, with penalties for over doing it, but in Russia it is either this or that. No middle at all or laws to protect the morals of Russian society. First of all, laws are that respected there, so using law so solve a human/medical/moral issue is not something that will even work. But you specifically said that it would be good if women were not allowed to have more than 2 abortions. This would be an enormous violation of privace in the eyes of the US or International law. How can you even do this? Should they keep track of all abortions that a particular woman had? Should there be a central repository of abortion information where any doctor could call and find out whether a particular woman had her 2 abortions? Keeping track of abortions? Well, frankly...YES! Call it what you want about privacy. At least there are stipulations on owning a gun. You just can't go around shooting people.
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MrSpice Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: jo jo 7 wrote: Keeping track of abortions? Well, frankly...YES! Call it what you want about privacy. At least there are stipulations on owning a gun. You just can't go around shooting people. Well, if it's OK with you that the doctors would demand when and how you got any kind of treatment, as of today, you have the right to privacyand you don't need to disclose where you did any kind of medical procedure to anyone. It would be very difficult to implement anyway. I would hate the women in Russia or anywhere being subjected to any rules like that.
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yorbcbud Lounge Wizard Joined: 17 Feb 2006 Posts: 4903 Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: jo jo 7 wrote: MrSpice wrote: First of all, laws are that respected there, so using law so solve a human/medical/moral issue is not something that will even work. But you specifically said that it would be good if women were not allowed to have more than 2 abortions. This would be an enormous violation of privace in the eyes of the US or International law. How can you even do this? Should they keep track of all abortions that a particular woman had? Should there be a central repository of abortion information where any doctor could call and find out whether a particular woman had her 2 abortions? Keeping track of abortions? Well, frankly...YES! Call it what you want about privacy. At least there are stipulations on owning a gun. You just can't go around shooting people. Spice is right here, women have the right to choose what they can do with their own bodies. It's between them, and God. Governments have no place in the private lives of their citizens, unless they are hurting others. America is not China, and you're very lucky it's not.
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MrSpice Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Yorbcbud - I don't know but such basic ideas that are obvious to anyone in Canada, Europe, New York or Chicago are not obvious to many living in the conservative South in the US. jo jo does not what it means to be pregant when you have no future, no support, no desire and capability to have children. Forcing such women not to have abortions simply beucase they reached some artificial limit (2), would be cruel, undemocratic and wrong. And keeping track of what procedure woman had in the past would be against many internation privacy standards and laws. Russia needs more freedom and democracy, not less.
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jo-jo-7 Just Starting Joined: 16 Mar 2010 Posts: 6	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: MrSpice wrote: jo jo 7 wrote: Keeping track of abortions? Well, frankly...YES! Call it what you want about privacy. At least there are stipulations on owning a gun. You just can't go around shooting people. Well, if it's OK with you that the doctors would demand when and how you got any kind of treatment, as of today, you have the right to privacyand you don't need to disclose where you did any kind of medical procedure to anyone. It would be very difficult to implement anyway. I would hate the women in Russia or anywhere being subjected to any rules like that. I am not disagreeing with you on this privacy issue it is how many abortions are allowed before a woman starts to take advantage of the situation. There should be stipulations on how many is too much, that has nothing to do with privacy. People still need rules whether they are a woman or man. This is what makes a honorable and valuable person. Too many people walk around with less value on life now than what it used to be. This is why Russia has no babies. Russia is losing their population due to the low self control of women.
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MrSpice Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Russia is lossing its population for the following reasons: - the poor quality of healthcare (many people die younger because they are treated, preventive treatment is of poor quality) - ecology is not good in many parts of the country contributing to poor health - drinking too much is widespread - eating habits or many people - the economy is still relatively weak in many regions, so many women are hesitant to have more children
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yorbcbud Lounge Wizard Joined: 17 Feb 2006 Posts: 4903 Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:11 pm    Post subject: MrSpice wrote: Yorbcbud - I don't know but such basic ideas that are obvious to anyone in Canada, Europe, New York or Chicago are not obvious to many living in the conservative South in the US. jo jo does not what it means to be pregant when you have no future, no support, no desire and capability to have children. Forcing such women not to have abortions simply beucase they reached some artificial limit (2), would be cruel, undemocratic and wrong. And keeping track of what procedure woman had in the past would be against many internation privacy standards and laws. Russia needs more freedom and democracy, not less. Thats right, and for the record, I don't support abortions. There was a decision to be made, when my ex was pregnant by accident. ( i was poking fun at her, and she took it seriously) But abortion was never an option, and I'm glad that my son was able to exist. But it's till a woman's choice to do what she wants. and that's a large part of a free society. I saw an Amnesty International infommercial this morning, and women in Pakistan are being hacked with machetes, and burned to death, simply for refusing to participate in arranged marriages. Women fought for their rights, and we should all defend them in that matter.
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jo-jo-7 Just Starting Joined: 16 Mar 2010 Posts: 6	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: MrSpice wrote: Russia is lossing its population for the following reasons: - the poor quality of healthcare (many people die younger because they are treated, preventive treatment is of poor quality) - ecology is not good in many parts of the country contributing to poor health - drinking too much is widespread - eating habits or many people - the economy is still relatively weak in many regions, so many women are hesitant to have more children you forgot infidelity..but I think the reason for it it is because men drink too much.
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MrSpice Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: I don't think infidelity in Russia is much different from what you would see in any other country. In the US, the percentage of men and women who cheat is extremely high. I read many opinion polls on this, and it's my understanding that when it comes to cheating US women and men are far ahead even of Russians. Let's not exaggerate the importance of infidelity on the children of children born. I think it's not as significant as you'd want to believe. In Russia, the relative number of divorces is similar to that of the US - about 50%.
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surfguy Lounge Wizard Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 6979	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject: MrSpice wrote: I don't think infidelity in Russia is much different from what you would see in any other country. In the US, the percentage of men and women who cheat is extremely high. I read many opinion polls on this, and it's my understanding that when it comes to cheating US women and men are far ahead even of Russians. Let's not exaggerate the importance of infidelity on the children of children born. I think it's not as significant as you'd want to believe. In Russia, the relative number of divorces is similar to that of the US - about 50%. Although I would tend to agree with you spice...I think people in Russia expect that men in Russia are going to cheat...where as in the US although the numbers may match I think we make a bigger deal out of it. I did read in a Russian News source that the Percentage of divorce is 2/3 of all marriages end in divorce...this is higher than the states...but here in California the percentage is almost that high. Yes effects of infedelity on children can be drastic
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darthvader WayToRussified Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 427	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: jo jo 7 wrote: MrSpice wrote: Russia is lossing its population for the following reasons: - the poor quality of healthcare (many people die younger because they are treated, preventive treatment is of poor quality) - ecology is not good in many parts of the country contributing to poor health - drinking too much is widespread - eating habits or many people - the economy is still relatively weak in many regions, so many women are hesitant to have more children you forgot infidelity..but I think the reason for it it is because men drink too much. Adding to the above: The major factor responsible for birth rate decline is secularism. Fact: The more secular a country is, the less children will be born. This brings me to secular socialist states - or, maybe just the factor of socialism: "Socialism" is a major root cause (in the West - especially Europe, and post-communist Russia, pining for its socialist roots). Why? Over many decades, the people were socialised into thinking that that Big Government has to provide the incentives/conditions for couples to create large familes. This mentality (and now reality) is all backwards and has been so for decades in many countries. Children are seen as a burden on the social welfare system, and, not too long ago (30 years?) some Western academics stupidly thought that we would over-populate the earth if we didn't cut back on birthing! "Please, don't bring a new child into our resource-stretched, overpopulated world!", was a (Western) pervasive view. Large families should ensure that individuals in the family are well-supported in the tough times. As stated previously, Russia has been been "far worse off" in history than now (economically + materially), yet had "much higher" birthrates - to ensure a viable Russian future. In the past, Russia had to rely more on the family unit, to ensure its survival - not the government, or the favourable economic conditions set up by the government. But, of course the government has to step in "now" to try provide incentives to rectify the birth rate decline. The social situation is so serious, the host of issues so bad (not just in Russia), that individual couples simply can't change things around after decades of societal meltdown. Last edited by darthvader on Sat May 05, 2007 9:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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darthvader WayToRussified Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 427	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: MrSpice wrote: .......In Russia, the relative number of divorces is similar to that of the US - about 50%. Not 80% in Russia? (80% does sound drastically high!) Source: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0519/p01s04-woeu.html
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surfguy Lounge Wizard Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 6979	Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: good point DV and I think it is totally true...Society should promote birth rates
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vitalsigns Lounge Wizard Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Posts: 2784	Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 1:54 am    Post subject: Condoms are from the devil.
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surfguy Lounge Wizard Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 6979	Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 2:18 am    Post subject: vitalsigns wrote: Condoms are from the devil. not sure what you mean by this...I do know that a lot of people in the world need to use them
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