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MashaF
Just Starting
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: multiple-entry business visa and registration |
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Hi,
I have been to Russia many times before, but I am a bit at loss with the new regulations.
1) I am going to stay in Russia next year, 2x4 months. I wanted to get a 1-year mutliple-entry visa (i.e. buy an invitation, from a visa provider, no real business there), so I don't have to get more visas than is necessary. I am under the impression though that the regulations there have changed - namely, two problems: is it true that the consulate may not issue a 1-year visa if the owner of the passport did not already have a visa in the year before (my last visa, 1-year also, expired last september)? And I have heard about a new regulation, stating that you cannot stay in Russia for more than 90 days in 180 days at a time???? WTH?? So how do things actually look on that front?
2) I am going to rent a room, and because of costs, I will definitely avoid any rental agency. That means I'll probably end up having a room or apartment rented to some Russian, probably old. In my experience, asking them to register a foreigner is a big no-no for such informal rentals. The owners don't want to go through the whole hassle, they don't even know anything about it, they may not live in Moscow, or they are to old to queue at the police, or they simply don't want to have anything to do with the authorities, among other things because they do not intend to pay any property taxes. No use trying to convince them otherwise; they'll just find another tenant - and it's not like they have trouble renting their Moscow apartments. So what happens then?? Especially with a 1-year visa? Where to register? Who will do it? Any visa business you would recommend, where you know that they will take care of the registration without any problem (and I don't care if I have to pay up to 100$ for it, it's part of the game, isn't it?)?
3) A problem I have already had: if you cross the Ukrainian or Bielorussian border with the train, they usually don't have any migration cards to hand out, as there aren't that many foreigners travelling on those routes. Plus, on the Bielorussian-Russian border to enter Russia, there is often no control at all, because of the union thing - so you'll end up having an exit stamp, but no entry stamp, which makes registration very complicated. So what are you supposed to do once you don't have a migration card? Last time it happened, nobody could help me, but it didn't seem to matter. There are apparently no official texts about that. At the airport, I just said I had lost the card, and they didn't care (btw, that's something I and friends have done on other occasions when we hadn't been registered - but it is a risky move, although none of us ever had a real problem). For the entry stamp, well, we went to the airport as soon as we got to Moscow and made a fuss until they would stamp our visas, but I am not sure that that would work again (we had a sympathetic border guard facing us, and even then it was not easy, although meeting a sympathetic border guard is something akin to a miracle), and I wonder what you are supposed to do when that happens.
Thanks,
Masha |
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greg222
VIP
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Masha
1. I've heard both those things as well and don't think either is true. For the first one (needing a previous visa in order to get a multiple-entry visa) you'll find out whether or not this is true when you order your visa support. As for the 90 days out of 180 thing, if that's true then I know plenty of people who are breaking this rule and getting away with it. It's possible that both these rules (if they exist at all) only apply to certain nationalities.
2. No easy solutions here. If you opt to get fake hotel registration through some agency you will also have problems as this can only be provided for 3 months at a time (after which you need to leave the country). And if I understood correctly you intend to stay for four months at a time.
There are also agencies around that will give you registration in an apartment for up to 6 months, but I don't have contacts for any of them. As difficult as it might be, it's best to convince the owner of the apartment where you're staying to register you. This has become quite a lot simpler with the new rules. See here:
http://blogs.waytorussia.net/item/59
3. Not sure if there's a definite answer for this but this thread might help:
http://www.waytorussia.net/TalkLounge/conversation9079.html |
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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| greg222 wrote: | Hi Masha
1. I've heard both those things as well and don't think either is true. For the first one (needing a previous visa in order to get a multiple-entry visa) you'll find out whether or not this is true when you order your visa support. As for the 90 days out of 180 thing, if that's true then I know plenty of people who are breaking this rule and getting away with it. It's possible that both these rules (if they exist at all) only apply to certain nationalities.
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The second is true. Starting from 1 June, Russian Consulates in Europe issue 1 year business visas, where it is written - valid for 90 days out of each 180 days. I saw such a visa myself. It's too earlier to say whether you can get away with breaking this rule, because 90 days have not passed yet since 1 June.
I do not know for sure whether the first is true. My present perception is that this rule is not absolutely strict, and once you have been in Russia many times, it should not be a problem with getting a 1 year visa. |
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greg222
VIP
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Just checked it out. That's rough. It seems it applies only to consulates in the EU though and that the UK is exempt. So, could mainland Europeans not go to England to get these visas and then avoid this rule? |
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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| greg222 wrote: |
It seems it applies only to consulates in the EU though and that the UK is exempt. So, could mainland Europeans not go to England to get these visas and then avoid this rule? |
Yes, it is applied for EU. I do not know whether someone has managed to avoid this rule by getting visa through England. All this stuff is rather new, not much experience yet. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 9 month Business Visa...well it just expired in July...but in no where did it say anything about being only valid for 90 days out of 180 days. So my question is will the visas say this on them? (I received the support for it from WTR) So since I already had a Business visa...will it be easier to receive a 2nd one...or rather I shouldn't run into any problems? Ok need to apply for another one as soon as my passport gets renewed  |
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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | I have a 9 month Business Visa...well it just expired in July...but in no where did it say anything about being only valid for 90 days out of 180 days. So my question is will the visas say this on them? (I received the support for it from WTR) So since I already had a Business visa...will it be easier to receive a 2nd one...or rather I shouldn't run into any problems? Ok need to apply for another one as soon as my passport gets renewed |
Yes, "valid for 90 days out of 180 days" is just typed on visa (in russian). This "90-180" rule is applicable for EU, and it is not related wiht the visa support. I do not know about other countries. In any case, it should be easier to receive the second visa, and from your visa you will see whether it is of "90-180" type or not. |
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MashaF
Just Starting
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Ok thanks for the confirmation. I cannot believe they are making it even more complicated. I thought the whole process should go smoother and smoother between Russia and EU, since they have been negotiating all those years... So no 1-year visa for me, I don't want to take risks.
The 90/180 rule doesn't apply for 6 months visas though, does it?? |
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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MashaF wrote: |
The 90/180 rule doesn't apply for 6 months visas though, does it?? |
It does. The RF-EU agreement talks only about 90/180 type of visas. Several ways to overcome this rule have been suggested. No real success stories have been posted. See also
http://www.waytorussia.net/TalkLounge/quote-69759.html#69759 |
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MashaF
Just Starting
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you kidding me? So does anyone have any solution? I fear that the visa run is way too risky. If they want to apply this rule, then what would be the point of accepting such a renewal? If they are doing it on the Schengen model, then they will not be renewing visas that fast. I guess it is too early to know, but does anyone have a clue about how they intend to enforce the 90/180 rule? |
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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| MashaF wrote: | | Are you kidding me? |
No kidding. The agreement is there:
http://www.ambru.nl/f/Visa_facilitation_EN.pdf
Read articles 1, 3.d, and 5.4 . I had the same questions as you. Still could not figure it out. |
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MashaF
Just Starting
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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OK thanks guys. I had read the agreement on Sun. The main question will be how the Russians enforce it. Basically, if they just want to enforce regulations like those in all other normal countries, that means that we really cannot stay more than 3 months in 6 months, and no visa run. Fair enoug, from a theoretical point of view - no reason after all why Russia would be the only one not to do so - but personnally, it's a real problem.
The next question is, what is exactly an "educational or work visa" - ok, I know what the real ones are, but is there an easy way to get one of those without actually working or studying in Russia? Among all those universities and schools, isn't there one who'll deliver the invitation for a fee even if you don't actually study there? |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Speaking of length of stays with business visas, I have a one-year multiple entry visa acquired the U.S., but was never told by the consulate that I have to leave before 6 months & re-enter. I'm aware of this rule from reading this website, but it's not mentioned on my visa. Should it be? The duration of stay marked is 367 days. no 90 or 180 days written anywhere. Do they expect everyone to know the 6-month rule? |
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greg222
VIP
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The 90 out of 180 day rule apparently only applies to Europeans so won't affect you. As for leaving after 6 months, that's because you can't be registered for more than 6 months at a time. But you only have to leave for a day and can come right back. I've heard of people managing to get registered for a whole year, but I think that's due more to good luck than any sort of method. |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| greg222 wrote: | | As for leaving after 6 months, that's because you can't be registered for more than 6 months at a time. |
Ah. I'm currently working on being un-registered for six months at a time! |
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