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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: Opinions on Mikhail Gorbachev |
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This past Wednesday, Mikhail Gorbachev was in Louisville, Kentucky talking about the Cold War to us Southerners, how do Russians really feel about Mr. Gorbachev? Was he good for Russia or not good?
Is this a normal thing for Mr. Gorbachev to go to different states in the US to give speeches? I was very surprised to have him here in KY.
I missed his speech and was going to go with my friend Sveta but she did not like him and spoke not so great things about him. I am curious of other Russians opinions on Gorbachev. |
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vox16
Just Starting
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Opinions on Mikhail Gorbachev |
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| jo jo 7 wrote: | | This past Wednesday, Mikhail Gorbachev was in Louisville, Kentucky talking about the Cold War to us Southerners, how do Russians really feel about Mr. Gorbachev? Was he good for Russia or not good? |
Here is my opinion.
When country depends strongly on oil export and most of internal production is related to military ( for internal use, not for export; and even in case of export most of it was sold to proliferate communism to some developing conutries not for money but for never-would-bepaid debts ) significant drop of oil prices without changing of life style is impossible.
Could he change it? Reduce military spending, carry out mas layoffs on military plants and other induistries that do not earn money but spend them? I doubt that any leader if he were in his shoes could do it without changing communist ideology - all this stuff about 'right to work', 'right for dwelling'. Even if he had tried, ruling elite would have not allowed him to do it.
What is definitely good about Gorbachev - he let country dissolve without attempts to supress 15 (14) 'rebels' forcefully ( except maybe Latvia ). So he continued to predent everything is ok ( temporary difficulties with everything including food ) until the very collapse.
| Quote: |
Is this a normal thing for Mr. Gorbachev to go to different states in the US to give speeches? I was very surprised to have him here in KY.
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He needs to do something to earn money to live on. It's not a bad way - travelling with lectures around different countries.
[/quote]
I missed his speech and was going to go with my friend Sveta but she did not like him and spoke not so great things about him. I am curious of other Russians opinions on Gorbachev.[/quote]
Did she say the same bs about "great people, working hard, great country, damned gorbie with damned democrats, screwed up everything, made the country collapse into powerty"? //control question - what personally she did to fix 'difficulties with food' in end of 80s// Such one is common to hear from people that were younger than 10 in 1990. Others just try to fool themselves trying to persuade themselves that life in end of 80s was more or less good. |
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gomer
WayToRussified
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 445
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I've heard a few Russian people blame Gorbachev for the break-up of the Soviet Union but they didn't go into detail about their opinion. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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saint_chrisburg
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Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think opinion on Gorbachev is split. Those who grew up in the "golden" days of communism dislike him because he's associated with the end of communism and the "golden" days where life was so good. Others, on the other hand, like him because he saw what was happening to his country and took proactive steps towards a transition that would have to occur at some point. In other words, I'd say those who had a better life during the communist regime probably would tend to dislike him, and those whose lives are more or less the same, or have become better, would tend to like him. Most people I knew in Russia liked him and greatly respected him. Of course there were those who despised him.
I think you really missed out on a great opportunity to see one of the most important men in the history of the late 20th century. I'd be kicking myself for that one. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You can not outsmart real life. |
this is a very good point made by Gorbachev |
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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on Mikhail Gorbachev |
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| vox16 wrote: | | jo jo 7 wrote: | | This past Wednesday, Mikhail Gorbachev was in Louisville, Kentucky talking about the Cold War to us Southerners, how do Russians really feel about Mr. Gorbachev? Was he good for Russia or not good? |
Here is my opinion.
When country depends strongly on oil export and most of internal production is related to military ( for internal use, not for export; and even in case of export most of it was sold to proliferate communism to some developing conutries not for money but for never-would-bepaid debts ) significant drop of oil prices without changing of life style is impossible.
Could he change it? Reduce military spending, carry out mas layoffs on military plants and other induistries that do not earn money but spend them? I doubt that any leader if he were in his shoes could do it without changing communist ideology - all this stuff about 'right to work', 'right for dwelling'. Even if he had tried, ruling elite would have not allowed him to do it.
What is definitely good about Gorbachev - he let country dissolve without attempts to supress 15 (14) 'rebels' forcefully ( except maybe Latvia ). So he continued to predent everything is ok ( temporary difficulties with everything including food ) until the very collapse.
| Quote: |
Is this a normal thing for Mr. Gorbachev to go to different states in the US to give speeches? I was very surprised to have him here in KY.
|
He needs to do something to earn money to live on. It's not a bad way - travelling with lectures around different countries.
|
I missed his speech and was going to go with my friend Sveta but she did not like him and spoke not so great things about him. I am curious of other Russians opinions on Gorbachev.[/quote]
Did she say the same bs about "great people, working hard, great country, damned gorbie with damned democrats, screwed up everything, made the country collapse into powerty"? //control question - what personally she did to fix 'difficulties with food' in end of 80s// Such one is common to hear from people that were younger than 10 in 1990. Others just try to fool themselves trying to persuade themselves that life in end of 80s was more or less good.[/quote]
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Vox16,
When Gorbachev was in Louisville, there was a large crowd who came to see him. Svetlana was angry that she didn't go because she wanted to see him fill our heads up with BS. Her mother hates Gorbachev and cursed about him in Russian to Sveta while I was sitting at their table. I knew she was angry even though I am just learning Russian I could tell in her mother's voice she hated Gorbachev and she told Sveta that she did not want her to go or I to see him. I understood that much. Her mother told Sveta not take me to see this idiot. I wanted to go but I did not want to make her mother angry at me. She likes me and I didn't want to mess that up. Sveta told me that Gorbachev left in the middle of everything and believes that Russia will never recover from him leaving like he did. That was her words to me. |
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Happy-Valentine
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 6
Location: tverskie bolota
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I have so much to say about it, but can't because my english isn't proper..
Please, tell me what a responsibility was accounted by Gorbachev? His decisions had grave consequences... But when all was done he just changed his place of residence and get Nobel Prize. It seems like treason.
I just want to say that large-scaled politic should have an adequate responsibility.
Altogether I wonder at how the man who mangles the Russian language so strongly had became the president of "the most reading" country of the world  |
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saint_chrisburg
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Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Happy Valentine wrote: |
Altogether I wonder at how the man who mangles the Russian language so strongly had became the president of "the most reading" country of the world |
The same way Bush, who mangles the English language, became the president of the U.S.....twice! Charisma, charisma, charisma! |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Is Gorbachev even still living in Russia? He is a staunch supporter of Al Gore...another socialist dope. Aims for the same thing Clintons and Bush does...New World Order...Globalization...but the thing with Gorbachev is that his rhetoric doesn't match his actions. He has a horrific environmental record and yet heads the Green Cross. The USSR was a mes before Gorbachev took over...I think he was smart with perastroika...Yeltsin botched things up...and Putin and his people are the ones who really are cleaning up, I think Putin is smart. He has so many bafoons to learn from and to see thier mistakes. Plus he'll be in power for a log time...enough to achieve that whixh all the others have not...Total Control |
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saint_chrisburg
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Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: |
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I don't see any problem in trying to strive for a so-called new world order. Beats staying in stagnancy. Anyway I believe Gorbachev still maintains residence in Russia.
For Happy Valentine:
I think Gorbachev had good intentions, but he went about most things in the wrong way and totally destroyed everything!!! I don't think he really abandoned the country though...he was forced out by all the enemies he made...the party...the military...Yeltsin....even his own friends and supporters. Hey, he even ran for president against Yeltsin in 1996, but he didn't get any votes -
"In 1996, Gorbachev re-ran for President in Russia, but only received 0.5% of the vote. While on a pre-election tour at that time he was punched in the face by an unknown man, and spat in the face by an unknown woman." (see Mikhail Gorbachev on wikipedia)
It's good that he didn't win, he would have just made a bigger mess of things. |
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surfguy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Well Gorbachev was far better than Yeltsin. Thing is Putin is tightening the strings again and the people although they might have some better opportunities...I'd say ultimately Russia will return to Sovietesque times. |
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MrSpice
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on Mikhail Gorbachev |
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| jo jo 7 wrote: |
When Gorbachev was in Louisville, there was a large crowd who came to see him. Svetlana was angry that she didn't go because she wanted to see him fill our heads up with BS. Her mother hates Gorbachev and cursed about him in Russian to Sveta while I was sitting at their table. |
I am not sure why you care so much about a former leader of the former Soviet Union. He is very unpopular in Russia as he is blamed for the collapse of the Soviet Union - probably unfairly. |
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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on Mikhail Gorbachev |
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| MrSpice wrote: | | jo jo 7 wrote: |
When Gorbachev was in Louisville, there was a large crowd who came to see him. Svetlana was angry that she didn't go because she wanted to see him fill our heads up with BS. Her mother hates Gorbachev and cursed about him in Russian to Sveta while I was sitting at their table. |
I am not sure why you care so much about a former leader of the former Soviet Union. He is very unpopular in Russia as he is blamed for the collapse of the Soviet Union - probably unfairly. |
I was asking what Russians thought of him, not me.....  |
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darthvader
WayToRussified
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| MrSpice wrote: | | I am not sure why you care so much about a former leader of the former Soviet Union. He is very unpopular in Russia as he is blamed for the collapse of the Soviet Union - probably unfairly. |
Perhaps. Especially as the the Soviet Union's Communist economy was already terminally ill by the mid-80s - before his rule. Am I wrong?
"...... In his memoirs, Mikhail Gorbachev recalled that when Andropov was the leader, he and Nikolai Ryzhkov, the chairman of Gosplan, asked Yuri Andropov for access to real budget figures. "You are asking too much," Andropov responded. "The budget is off limits to you."
......"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Andropov
Gorby had to try something, albeit dire mistakes were made in his reforms. However, the communist Soviet Union was never going to be forever - right?
Bad as it was for “Russia” - especially immediately post-Gorbachev, of course most of Eastern Europe was very happy with the collapse of the Soviet Union. East Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania, etc were decades behind Western Europe in 1990. The Communist system had failed them.
For all Gorby's unpopularity at home, perhaps he (wittingly and unwittingly) sowed the seeds for what Russia is today?
I wish more Russians would enter comments into WTR threads. |
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