Way to Russia Talk Lounge

woody666 · Just Starting Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 1

I made a tentative booking on Dec 1 2007 for a booking for an apartment in Sept 2008 in Moscow.

I was informed I would here from somebody within 24 hours, I am still waiting to hear anything from anyone 10 days later

If the administrators would like my booking number, all they have to do is write to me & I will pass it on & they can check on my booking.

Nobody seems to want to answer my emails I have sent 3 to them at way to russia

Regards

Woody

greg222 · VIP Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 520

Sorry, the emails you sent to Way to Russia haven't been received. Please PM me the request ID.

jsager · Just Starting Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 5

i have just registered, although i have lurked for many years, on this site. Now that i have a complain, i do not see my message displayed. Oh well, i will then just go to other forums to vent my frustration

jsager · Just Starting Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 5

is my experience in trying to rent an apartment through WTR.

-------------------------------

1. first response from landlord......

Kremlin Delux is not available for the New Year, but I can offer you a good alternative:
http://apartments.waytorussia.net/listing/111
Also note the New Year apartment are a bit more (boldface italics are mine) expensive (+30%)
What is the convenient way for you to pay a security deposit:
Webmoney, e-gold, Western Union, Contact or cash via your friends in Moscow?
You can also confirm this by SMS to +79055510221 (make sure you include your dates and name eg John 11.04-11.07)

Please send me your flight information if you also need an airport pick-up.
The price is 1450r + parking(if applies)

Sincerely,
Pavel
City Life Apartments
---------------------------------

2. my reply.....

thank you for the reply, but i will not be accepting the offer because:-
- the 30% surcharge is NOT mentioned in your listing on the WTR
website, and smells like a last minute rip-off
- none of your methods of payment for the deposit is convenient.

----------------------------------

3. here is the response i received.... excellent PR..............

If you consider annual super-high-season fee of just 30% for the cheappest 2room flat to be a rip off, I guess it's not a good idea for you to travel otherwise you always feel that someone is trying to rip you off in Russia. Save you nerves - stay home.
City Life Apartments

------------------------------------

4. after i made a complaint to WTR, i dont have the details of what i wrote, but here is the response......

Thank you for the feedback. WTR guys asked me to explain this situation to you. So here it is:
> However, NO WHERE in the listing for that apartment on WTR was there any mention of a 30% premium.
The high season rates actually depend not on dates, but on a number of requests we receive (boldface are mine), so it's not possible to indicate exact dates, so often there's no any additional costs during high season. We do warn customers in the first message in case of any changes. Still, we try to keep our prices LOWEST in Moscow.
There's is a warning on the listing: http://apartments.waytorussia.net/listing/111
Look just below red text "please check availability of this flat" it says "Some season changes might apply".

> There are many listings on WTR that specifies a premium during peak season,
So why does it look like "last minute rip-off" to you then?

> i am sure i can find better
I'd really appreciate if you let me know of better offers.

Alex
City Life Apartments
---------------------------------------------

5. WTR then sent me a form letter saying "If your Request was not fulfilled we will appreciate if you let us know why."
I sent the following to WTR's "quality monitoring team" and have yet to receive any kind of acknowledgement, even if it is only to say that they have received my feedback........

" the reason i did not complete the order should be obvious from the
correspondence i had with the supplier. It is not very professional to
introduce an 'unadvertised special' of a 30% increase in rates. In
addition, the subsequent reasons given for the increase were 'lame',
and it all smells of a rip-off. With the 30% increase, which is not
dependent on the season, but on the number of enquiries (as stated in
the landlord's reply - and i wonder how they decide when to charge
this increase), can WTR still recommend it as the cheapest apartment
on offer?

this is the first time i have tried to book an apartment thru WTR, and
i am not at all impressed.

would WTR allow me to post on the forum, with a summary of the
correspondence - as is, so i can have feedback as to whether i am
just a pain in the ass,or whether my complains are justified, and
other readers can decide if they want to rent from this landlord." .

--------------------------------------------

what pisses me off is ........

1. why is the rate increase not stated clearly in the webpage, like some other landlords on WTR do?

2. the reply to "Look just below red text "please check availability of this flat" it says "Some season changes might apply". What does ' some season changes might apply mean' especially when it comes under the heading of checking availability? Are we suppose to do mental loops and associate that with an unadvertised price increase? and if so, then why not, just why not, put it under the paragraph where prices are stated?

3. the + 30% unadvertised special is dependent NOT on dates, but on number of requests received. Well, how exactly does the landlord determine what the number of requests would be, for any particular time period, when the landlord is supposed to reply within 24 hours (as per WTR) to any query ? I thought about this, and one plausible way is to keep the apartment advertised as available, or pending, and not reply to queries within the 24 hours (and WTR states on the webpage that the landlord could take several days to respond), while accumulating the number of requests received.

4. why are apartments availability status only listed as pending, and i have yet to see any that are confirmed booked? I have no problems with WTR asking users to write in even if an apartment is booked (as they may have alternatives - and in fact, i clearly stated in my initial query to be offered alternatives), but having apartments listed as pending only ..... kind of has the flavors of bait and switch.
ustration[/quote]

jsager · Just Starting Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 5

removed by poster

jsager · Just Starting Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 5

If WTR is serious and wants to live up to its claims in its apartment rental service, then here are my comments:

in the WTR home page for apartments for rent in Moscow , it claims the following benefits for booking through the WTR apartment reservations hotline:

1. quality apartments and reliable landlords.
I tried to book an apartment through WTR, and my experience is described in my posting above, and based on that experience, i would NOT say that i had a reliable (or trustworthy) landlord. As for quality, there was a posting by another poster, 'terrible apartment in Moscow' .

2. Save your money and time.
well, i spent a lot of time surfing the WTR site, checking through many apartments, and it was all time wasted as i was offered a 30% unadvertised 'special increase in price" (see posting above). If WTR really wants to live up to this claim, then why not:

a). in the search listings, post the price for rental period of up to 7 days, instead of the lowest price, which in almost all cases is offered only for rentals of 21 to 31 days. I do not have the figures to back it up, but i am quite sure that the majority of renters for such apartments would be for 1 week, or at most 2 weeks - so, if WTR wants to save us money and time, then why not quote the price in the search summary for 1 or 2 weeks? I spent a lot of time to click on each apartment to find out what the price was for a 1 week rental, and then having to write them down on a piece of paper so that i can really compare the prices.

b). on this page (http://apartments.waytorussia.net), the right most column advertises such bargains as :
- riverside studio, cheapest apartment in moscow at $79 /night. Well, this is not true, if renting for 1 week, this apartment is $89/nite. Whereas, apartment 279 is $85 - not significant difference, but it is annoying and takes me a while to get to the actual prices for this and other apartments.
Similarly, the ad right below it offers the Mayakovsky Studio for only $79 per nite (and therefore how can the riverside studio claimed to be the cheapest?). You need to click on the Mayakovsky ad to realise that the rate is $100 a nite for 7 nites or less - more of my time wasted.

c). when checking for live availability, i have yet to come across an apartment that is listed as being booked (ie not available).. It is always pending, and if so, then why have a status of "booked' that is never used? just remove the 'booked' status. Let users decide if they still want to apply even when it is 'booked' or 'pending'. Then you can claim to save users time.

d) in the search listings, what does WTR's service review column mean when it says "bookings accepted"? . If bookings are not accepted, then they should not be listed, right? In apartment 134, Kievskaya, it says booking accepted, but when i click on that apartment for details, i get the Service Review by WTR which states ' Currently not answering orders. It's not advisable to try to book one of their apartments at the moment.". If WTR really wants to save me time, why not just delete this listing????? instead of having me click through to find this Service Review by WTR? Incidentally, the landlord of this apartment is IntelService, which provides the visa service on WTR? So, what is happening here?

3. Objective information and Optimal Choice.
In the moscow apartments 'specials' page, only 2 apartments were touted. First, the riverside studio mentioned in paragraph above, still claiming to be lowest price in Moscow. The other apartment in this specials section is the 'Dutch Flat", which is the flat i wrote about in my earlier posting. In other words, i do not understand how or why the editors would tout these 2 apartments as lowest priced in Moscow, editors pick, or even recommended.

AND, for these 2 apartments, if you click on the Live Availabilty (Check now) link, it does not work, and has not been working since the first time i tried, before mid December 2007, till now. Is this how the landlord implements that price increase based on number of requests? (see my previous posting).

I have other dis-satisfactions and comments arising from my attempt to book thru WTR, but the weather here has cleared up, and i have better ways to spend my time.

WayToRussia · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject:

Hi, thanks for this fantastic feedback.

Regarding the user interface of apartments.waytorussia.net -- I'll forward it to our design team and I'm pretty sure we can use some of the suggestions.

By the way, to avoid looking through "pending" flats you can just click view available only when you make a search.

Regarding this other point you raised whether the flat is available for booking or not and still being listed, well, the thing is that Way to Russia is a rating resource. We aim to list a variety of offers in Russia and to inform people about the quality of service. If the quality is low, we don't allow people to book these flats through our site, but we want them to see who's "good" and who's "bad". That's why there is this forum as well. We're not "touting" any apartments, just helping people find the optimum choice. Regarding these two flats you told me about – if they are available they are indeed the best offer on the market – I stay there myself if I go to Moscow (in Dutch Flat). It's not the greatest flat, but the location and price is so good, that it's hard to beat. However, I understand your frustration in dealing with the landlord, so we will re-evaluate the "Specials" list.

jsager · Just Starting Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 5

[quote="WayToRussia"]Hi, thanks for this fantastic feedback.
By the way, to avoid looking through "pending" flats you can just click view available only when you make a search..[/quote]

The point i am trying to make is that almost every flat is in 'pending' status (none in 'booked' status, a status in which most users would then just ignore, and find some other apartment or website). Why is this so? If i search only for 'available', then i get next to nothing of interest in terms of value for money. Ok, if that is the intention of WTR, and i have no problems with that. But if i persist in trying to find out what WTR has to offer, because of how WTR hyped itself (ranking in google search, etc ) then my experience has been quite different ( see my previous postings on this thread, if you are interested).

In the specific case of the 'dutch flat', which is so highly publicised (sorry for my using 'touted' in my previous post), the "Check availabitlity' button for this listing has never worked, since before mid-december 2007 (and perhaps way before that?), till even now, today, as of this posting. WHY ?? Can anyone, anyone, in WTR explain why this is so? The "check availability' of other apartments that i tried had always worked, but they usually indicated the apartment as 'pending', and what does that mean? (please note that i am not on a vendetta against this flat or the City Life apartment landlords, its just that they represent my experiences with WTR).

[quote="WayToRussia"] Regarding this other point you raised whether the flat is available for booking or not and still being listed, well, the thing is that Way to Russia is a rating resource. We aim to list a variety of offers in Russia and to inform people about the quality of service. If the quality is low, we don't allow people to book these flats through our site, but we want them to see who's "good" and who's "bad". That's why there is this forum as well. ..[/quote]

If WTR really, really wants to be a world class rating resource, then you may want to look at other rating websites or consumer websites. If you will allow me, i can post URLs of those websites, but i am sure you know who/what they are, whether they are for consumer products, travel, hotels and/or apartments. However, all the websites i know are based outside of Russia, and it would really be good to see one based in Russia.

Who does the ratings and decides if some product is to be recommended on WTR? Based only on the editors, employees, or advertisers/sponsors of this website, ie all those who have a vested interest (and in reality are very seldom the real consumers of the products that they recommend)? Or should it be based on the real consumers, based on their real experiences? or both? Why not have the consumers/end users rate each apartment/landlord. You are already seeking comment for each rental that i have tried, and i have replied. But i do not get any response to my comments or feedback to your quality control department. Why do you not also publish user feedback (to your quality control department) that you already seek from actual users? In other words, you can have an editors' pick and rating, and against it is the users pick and rating? This will keep both the editors and consumers 'honest'.

[quote="WayToRussia"] We're not "touting" any apartments, just helping people find the optimum choice. Regarding these two flats you told me about – if they are available they are indeed the best offer on the market – I stay there myself if I go to Moscow (in Dutch Flat). It's not the greatest flat, but the location and price is so good, that it's hard to beat. However, I understand your frustration in dealing with the landlord, so we will re-evaluate the "Specials" list.[/quote]

As far as the "dutch flat' is concerned, on this page:
http://www.waytorussia.net/Services/ApartmentsMoscow.html
it says, and i quote:
"The price per night is in average $75 per night for the whole apartment (sleeps 4 people maximum) - based on a 6-day accommodation period. "

However, on this page, where you have to go to really try and book it:
http://apartments.waytorussia.net/listing/111
Apartment DUTCH FLAT (Recommended) (#111) Service Review by Way to Russia Great value apartments, but unfortunately they are very slow to respond to emails: Sometimes as long as 3 days.

Price $85 / night (22 to 30 nights stay)
$90 / night (16 to 21 nights stay)
$95 / night (7 to 15 nights stay)
$120 / night (1 to 6 nights stay)

WHERE is that $75 per night????? how can i book it at that price?

If you scroll up and read my first posting, i was offered the apartment with an 'unadvertised special of an additional 30%" over the 1 to 6 night price. In other words, i was offered $156 a nite for that apartment. I do not know what you pay, but would you say that $156 a nite is good value?

I do not think that the landlords of the 2 apartments are doing WTR any good, and as i said, i am not on a vendetta, as i do not know them, and only had a bad experience. I found another apartment, from another website, during the time i was in Moscow and SPB.