Way to Russia Talk Lounge

verena · Just Starting Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 3

HELLO!

I'M BRAZILIAN AND I HAVE A WORK TO THE UNIVERSITY ABOUT SOCIALISM/COMUNISM IN SOVIETIC UNION. ANYBODY COULD TELL ME HONESTLY IF SOCIALISM/COMUNISM WAS GOOD TO THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE OR IF IT'S BETTER TODAY WITH CAPITALISM, PLEASE? TELL ME EXEMPLES OF GOOD AND BAD THINGS.

HOW MUCH WAS BEFORE AND IS NOW THE AVERAGE SALARY IN RUSSIAN?

COULD YOU BUY FOOD AS MUCH AS YOU WANTED/ YOU COULD PAY FOR OR THE GOVERNMENT LIMITED HOW MUCH FOOD YOU COULD BUY?

HOW WAS THE EDUCATION AND HEALTH PUBLIC SISTEM?

THERE WAS LIMITATION TO TRAVEL INSIDE AND OUTSIDE RUSSIAN? DID YOU NEED PERMISSION TO TRAVEL INSIDE AND/OR OUTSIDE?

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HELPING ME.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

Dude, How can be so shallow and ask this question that is so simplistic? Obviously, communism brought to Russia an overwhelming tragedy. It's not only a matter of having better healthcare and better salaries. More than 20 million people died in repressions and purges in the 30s and 50s. Because many of the leading army commanders were executed by Stalin, the countires lost millions more people in the 2nd World War than it would have. The whole secretive nature of the communist government was detrimental to development and progress. There were some positive things created mostly unintentionally during the soviet times in the 70 and 80s, but overall, there's was shortage of everything - you had to stay in a long line just to buy a piece of bread. The agriculture was deteriorating to the point where the largest country in the world could not feed itself. Only now when many disfunctional collective farms have been privatized, the contry can finally feed itself and even export some of it abroad.

This was not a free country. There was no freedom of the press, there was no freedom of enterprise and no private property. Any country with this kind of a regime is doomed sooner or later.

Imagine that in Brasil you would have only 3 channels on TV and they all showed the same news program? That's the way it was in the Soviet Union? Imagine that there's not a sinle free and open newspaper or radio station. Imagine that one party and ideology controls everything in your country.

If you really want to know more about it, read this book ("The Case for Democracy by Nathan Sharansky):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586482610/qid=1125672039/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7939530-7420059?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

And this book (A History of the Soviet Union from the Beginning to the End):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521311985/qid=1125672084/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-7939530-7420059?v=glance&s=books

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Verena: There are threads and posts all over this forum and pages on this website that should and can answer your questions. Try using the search option on the upper right hand corner on most pages.

Did you also check out the "Interviews with Russian People" section of the site: http://www.waytorussia.net/Features/RussianPeople.html

Failing that, try www.wikipedia.org or make your questions a little bit more specific.

brandalpayne11 · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:45 am Post subject:

Wow!!!!!!!!! u go 2 a university.

1st of all socialism in theory is the perfect society, but nowhere in history has it worked for 1 reason, the human variable. so despite the drawbacks capitolism is the only way. reffer to 'The Anthem' by Ayn Rand.

cyndy22 · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:53 am Post subject:

This may seem like a simplistic question but it really isn't. Communism is mysterious an an unknown entity for many people. And schools including colleges and universities do not do justice to educating people about the former USSR and other communist countries, unless perhaps people major in these studies. I think it was practical for this Brazilian university student to post here. One might just think that an internet forum about Russia would have people who might be interested enough to provide more insight re this question.

Since I never lived in a communist country all I have is speculation. I know that my so called speculation is not well informed and is biased. I think that this question needs a more scholarly answer and I do not know if anyone here is up for this. But if there are any professors or historians up for this task, it would be enlightening.

verena · Just Starting Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 3

Yeh, there are universities in Brazil... and I'm asking and trying to have facts told by other side since the most we heard and have to read about USSR comes from americans and other capitalist countries, I'd like to make a true work without influence of hatings and passions anti-americans and anti-comunists.

I've read around this forum and others, thanks for your answers.

byte · Frequent Guest Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 20

How would you ever expect unbiased answers on your subject's questions to come out of this forum? Everyone has his strong opinions here on subjects like these.. And they're all coloured....
As far as i've seen.. no historians in here

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

Speak for yourself, kitten.
I doubt whether you could find any factual information about Socialism/Communism that wouldn't be 'coloured', as you so eloquently put it.

Even the question is subjective.

byte · Frequent Guest Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 20

Xela: I know that I can't help this bloke myself. Just the idea of using a forum for his research is dubious. Especially a forum for travellers Razz

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

And if somebody had the time, and could have been bothered to do verena's essay for her, would you still be saying it was dubious, then?

Once again, speak for yourself, and quietly..

verena · Just Starting Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 3

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

verena,

You are probably in the right place for it, and have recieved more than enough to be getting on with your essay.

Asking not to be disturbed on this forum is just wishful thinking..

init6 · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:

Verena, this forum is not a good place for research because almost every thread here devolves into flame wars if it's remotely controversial. I'm an American, and a socialist (not the lowercase 's', and I am not a Marxist), and I can admit that America has serious problems. American-style capitalism is NOT the way forward for the US or for the world!

BUT, the Soviet Union was never socialist (Lenin wanted it to be, of course, but he died soon after the revolution, the NEP was dismantled, Stalin took over and we all know the rest) but a State Capitalist system wherein the State owned all the enterprise rather than the workers themselves. If the State is truly representative of the people (which I don't think has ever happened, anywhere) then supposedly it's not so bad, but I don't buy it. A monolithic state party is never going to be able to adequately meet the needs of the people, and that's why planned economies do not work. I, for one, favor a market model in which the existing institutions, mainly corporations, answer to the people rather than to shareholders (which, by definition, are only going to be the rich and other cooperations - if they have any power, that is). This is a theory called a network economy, but it's a fledgling theory for sure.

Long story short, I'm certainly no apologist for the Soviet Union but as even MrSpice mentioned, it wasn't ALL bad (just mostly Wink

). The American system (currently) isn't all bad, just half-bad. A system in which 5% of the people control 95% of the wealth is indefensible. The REAL ramifications of the division of wealth and the effects of poverty have been made known to the ENTIRE WORLD after the unfortunate events that have taken place in New Orleans with hurricane Katrina. That's not so much a direct effect of economic policies, rather a natural disaster, but the post-disaster relief efforts (or the failures thereof) are symptomatic of failed policies and a completely lack of real, decent social programs.

I probably just wasted 15 minutes typing this post since this thread is destined for Flame City, but I like to put my two kopeks in nonetheless. Wink

mediashark · Moderator Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 1601

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

El Casey and Mediashark,

If you try looking at the Russian forums available out there(written in English), and you find one where you will have recieved a similar response as to the one that has been provided here, then please.. let me know..

Both Mr Spice and e provided links to places where one could find the precise sort of information verena was looking for.

Now Casey, in his absent mindedness, said this was not the right place for it; because you would only get a subjective opinion, and then went on to provide one of his own. Priceless.

And Mediashark, basically re-iterated what was said in earlier posts, always helpful for those who didn't get it first time around.

So we clearly see, verena, that this little venture of yours has been a resounding success, so good luck with your essay and make sure you let others in a similar predicament know that when you want information, or direction to information at the click of a fingertip, an internet forum is perhaps the best place in the modern world that you will find it. Wink