Way to Russia Talk Lounge

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3788509.stm

from http://www.cstn.org/reports/learning/01languagerussia.html :

"Despite decades of travel that had taken me throughout Europe, I felt a quiver of apprehension when I boarded an Aeroflot flight at London's Gatwick Airport. The flight attendants seemed to have stern faces. I later learned that one of the cultural differences between the USA and Russia involves smiling.

My language instructor, Stas, explained: "We smile when we are truly happy, when something marvelous has happened. When an American or European approaches a Russian to ask the time and he smiles, we think he's a hypocrite. Like he is delighted to be asking us the time?"

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

one other great article on this topic: http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2003-42-8

and this note from http://www.gapyear.com/russia/things_you_need_to_know.html

"Russians tend not to smile in public. This can be interpreted as unfriendliness but it’s a purely cultural thing. So again don’t take it personally if your winning smile is shot down with a disparaging glance, smiles are saved for friends!"

mediashark · Moderator Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 1601

So please do not litter your posts with insincere smileys! Neutral

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

Germany is getting serious about smiling: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050915/ap_on_fe_st/germany_smiles_verboten

mediashark · Moderator Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 1601

... I also know of laughing classes in Japan! Neutral

(ok, I'm trying hard not to put a smiling smiley in all my posts....)

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

And New Yorkers when they take subway don't have any reason to smile either:

Camrade · Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject:

russians used to smile sincerely...
so when they are don't want to smile, they won't do it Smile

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

exactly - but to some Americans (Cyndy is one of them) that looks as if everyone you see on the street is unfriendly, even though the smile in itself is only one indication that a particular person is friendly.

Чебурашка · Talk Show Host Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 218

People used to think I had a bad temper if I were just walking with a frown on my face, thinking.. Outward appearances can be very misleading.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

My point was that many people (especially Americans coming from small towns) except people to smile at them when they walk down the street. Somewhere in Texas a "how are you" from a total stranger is often expected, while in Russia most people don't smile just because they are friendly, especially at people they don't know.

cyndy22 · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject:

Mr. Spice is hardly knowledgeable re personal behavior of Americans residing in small towns. I am after all his poster girl for this so it seems! Rolling Eyes

I don't really think it is smiles that is the issue but openess. Russians are far less approachable than many other cultures. Less approachable because not all but many refuse to make eye contact, acknowledge your presense, are unlikely to engage in conversation with strangers even when it is the stranger who initiates it, and are often unwilling to provide info.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

Cyndy - if that is the case, I think russians should indeed change Smile

I would dare to say that you perception is likely to be affected by salespeople and other service folks that are notoriously unfriendly. It's a part of Soviet culture where customer did not matter. I noticed that in the new industries - like cell phone shops or restaurants, for example - the service and the friendliness is much better. Yet if you go to a bookstore where the same people work as did in the past - the service totally sucks. You better not ask too many questions, so you are right on that Smile

But I think that the average/random people - especially those with college education (important point) are much less hostile and are quite curious and friendly. St Petersburg is really a mixed bag. On one hand it's an industrial city where some of the heavy industries are located. Often, those factory workers are not particularly smart or friendly. On the other hand it's an educational center with lots of universities and research institutions.

As far as my expertise on small-town America, I am not an expert in any way, obviously. But I lived for 6 months in New Hampshire and have visited many small towns in Massachussetts, New York, California, Rhode sland, etc. I also studied in upstate New York for 3 years. And that's my perception of small-town America.

cyndy22 · Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:44 am Post subject:

I do agree that younger Russians and others regardless of education or class are indeed more approachable than many in the stores, hotels, tourist areas etc. Not everyone was unfriendly to me during my visit in June. I especially had a very pleasant conversation with a few younger persons in their 20's and a woman who was a teacher from Moscow. Smile

init6 · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:49 am Post subject:

I like the fact that not everyone here walks around with a stupid grin on their face. It drives me nuts when people do that and here it's a rarity. If I see someone smiling or laughing here, I know it's because they're happy or just heard something genuinely funny, not because they're a drooling moron (or drunk). Confused

I've had decent experiences with salespeople so far here, even some of the old Soviet ones. The local supermarket I usually shop in has one "sovok" cashier who growled, "Davai, davai!" at me because I didn't shove the guy in front of me out of the way immediately after he paid. Rolling Eyes

But to the left of her is a younger (30s) gal who is rather cheerful. You get the same thing in the US, that is for sure. Assholes and decent folks - it doesn't obey cultural boundaries.

On the other hand, I catch myself worrying about laughing on the metro sometimes, even if I'm talking with a friend (granted, I still feel self-conscious about speaking English in public). "Are they all looking at me like I'm an idiot now?" I often wonder. I'm sure I'll get over it.

But the forced smiles and insincerity of large portions of the West - well, I just don't like it. I have to go with George Carlin on this one. Don't tell me to have a nice day. I'll have a shitty day if I want to, and you can't do anything about it! Laughing

Honestly, though, some of the gruff exteriors, especially of middle-aged+ women, here really don't bother me that much. It's just part of the culture, and it shouldn't change. Would you want a bunch of Russians coming to the US and demanding that people stop smiling and telling you in a syrupy voice to have a nice day? I highly doubt it - so don't demand the inverse out of Russians, especially in their own country.

Russia is what it is and if the Westerners who are trying so desperately to Westernize Russia succeed, then I'll be looking for somewhere else to go. See Mark Ames/the eXile for far more than I could ever write on the subject.

Down with the paradigm blob!

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

init6: I am glad to hear from you again. Cyndy's point, though, was that not only some people don't smile but they were also unfriendly. That is not a good thing if that's true.