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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: USA
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 Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 9:30 am Post subject: Campfires & cookstoves |
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I found two OLD posts about what kind of stove fuel is available in Russia, but nobody replied to either post.
Then i searched on Google and the first hit was a page on the WTR site:
"A lot of Russian people actually camp in Suzdal without hiding (we saw some who stayed in a field next to Pokrovsky Monastery, camping next to their car and making a fire). "
http://www.waytorussia.net/GoldenRing/Suzdal/Accommodation.html
I'm starting to think that Russians don't use stoves when they camp, but just make camp fires. Where does anyone find firewood in a tourist place like Suzdal? Maybe Russians don't cook when they camp?
I'd like to bring my stove anyway (it's so much easier to cook with a stove), but again not sure what kind of fuel is available. Can you buy the French GAZ butane canisters? Or buy liquid gas (white gas) at camping supply stores? |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Well, I can answer my own post. I checked the "Moscow Business Telephone Guide" www.mbtg.ru and found the business "AlpIndustria" with a great website: www.alpindustria.ru. They have Gaz products in their catalog. Not sure if they sell it at their retail store, but at least I know its available somehow. Several locations in Moscow & other cities. cool |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3436
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Campfires & cookstoves |
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| charles wrote: | I found two OLD posts about what kind of stove fuel is available in Russia, but nobody replied to either post.
Then i searched on Google and the first hit was a page on the WTR site:
"A lot of Russian people actually camp in Suzdal without hiding (we saw some who stayed in a field next to Pokrovsky Monastery, camping next to their car and making a fire). "
http://www.waytorussia.net/GoldenRing/Suzdal/Accommodation.html
I'm starting to think that Russians don't use stoves when they camp, but just make camp fires. Where does anyone find firewood in a tourist place like Suzdal? Maybe Russians don't cook when they camp?
I'd like to bring my stove anyway (it's so much easier to cook with a stove), but again not sure what kind of fuel is available. Can you buy the French GAZ butane canisters? Or buy liquid gas (white gas) at camping supply stores? |
Let me answer your question. As far as I know - and throughout my 21 years living in St Petersburg - I have never seen anyone using a gas stove while camping. People just do campfires. In general, those kinds of activities in Russia are much less organized than here in the US. There are usually no special places to have a camp fire. People just go into the woods, find the place the like, clean it up a little and here you have a campground. As far as firewood - if you asked a typical russian this question, that person would be either puzzled or laught at you. That's a great example of how russian and western culture and understanding of simple things in life is different. In russia, people just find a few trees in the forest/woods and chop them up, or just cut down any other tree that they see fit. There are no park rangers, hardlyu anyone will fine you for this and this kind of attitude is widespread. No one will ever buy firewood in the store in Russia unless it's free (except maybe for very rich people).
When we wanted to do a barbeque in the Russian forest, we would just find a couple of fallen trees and cut them up with an ax and burn it in a fire. There are also lots of smaller tree trunks that one can find on the ground that can be used. One of the great thing about russian forests is that they are completely wild - no parking lots, no tourist stops, no private property sings (mostly - may there are more now). You can stop anywhere and do whatever you want (except burning the whole forest - . |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Campfires & cookstoves |
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| MrSpice wrote: | | As far as firewood - if you asked a typical russian this question, that person would be either puzzled or laught at you. That's a great example of how russian and western culture and understanding of simple things in life is different.....You can stop anywhere and do whatever you want (except burning the whole forest -. |
Thanks for the answer. I kind of got that impression, but nodoby had come right out and described things that clearly. Listen, things were more like this in the U.S. 25 years ago or more. Then came Smokey the Bear, and warned everybody to prevent forest fires. I would think campfires and vodka are a dangerous combination! Maybe Russia has so much forest, that when one burns down nobody notices. You know that in most of the Western U.S. forest fires are a huge problem. Believe me, it sucks to have to buy firewood when you go camping, but what else can you do? If everyone chopped down a tree when they wanted a fire, it would destroy the beautiful forests that we go to enjoy.
Russia is one of very few countries, I think, that have an "open space" law. I can't remember exactly what it's called, but I know some of the Scandanavian countries have a similar law, that says people can camp anywhere on public land. You know camping in the U.S. is illegal except at designated campgrounds. Try finding firewood in a campground where 150 people camp everynight for 6 months of the year. The forest floor is cleaner than my living room carpet So, I don't think it's a cultural difference - it's just a matter of limited (protected) resources.
I'll bet that in a few years, many more Russians will be camping like Europeans. Like i noted above, there is at least one store selling gas stoves in Russia.
It would be interesting to hear what yorbcbud has to say about people chopping down trees to make campfires, since he is a forest-dweller himself...  |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3436
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Campfires & cookstoves |
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| charles wrote: |
Thanks for the answer. I kind of got that impression, but nodoby had come right out and described things that clearly. Listen, things were more like this in the U.S. 25 years ago or more. Then came Smokey the Bear, and warned everybody to prevent forest fires. I would think campfires and vodka are a dangerous combination! Maybe Russia has so much forest, that when one burns down nobody notices. You know that in most of the Western U.S. forest fires are a huge problem. Believe me, it sucks to have to buy firewood when you go camping, but what else can you do? If everyone chopped down a tree when they wanted a fire, it would destroy the beautiful forests that we go to enjoy.
Russia is one of very few countries, I think, that have an "open space" law. I can't remember exactly what it's called, but I know some of the Scandanavian countries have a similar law, that says people can camp anywhere on public land. You know camping in the U.S. is illegal except at designated campgrounds. Try finding firewood in a campground where 150 people camp everynight for 6 months of the year. The forest floor is cleaner than my living room carpet So, I don't think it's a cultural difference - it's just a matter of limited (protected) resources.
I'll bet that in a few years, many more Russians will be camping like Europeans. Like i noted above, there is at least one store selling gas stoves in Russia.
It would be interesting to hear what yorbcbud has to say about people chopping down trees to make campfires, since he is a forest-dweller himself... |
Just to correct a few things:
1) When there's a forest fire season, the militia (police) gets very aggressive and there are annoucements that you cannot have fires or campfires in the forest and they threaten people with fines. So, in that respect, forest fires are recognized as a threat.
2) When you talk about laws and open space law, I don't think there's any law specifies this in Russia. And if there's one, no one cares about that law. Remember again that Russia is not the country where the law is respected. It's just that no one cares. In America, there are lots of people that are very law-abiding even without any enforcement. You put a large sign saying that "No capming is allowed" and a typical law-abiding mid-westerner won't even think of camping in the area. In Russia, in this same situation, they would probably hang their stuff on that sign, camp there, dink something, have a campfire and not even think twice.
It's not that there's an "open space" law. It's the fact that private property was non-existent in the Soviet times. People are used to conisder any land as common land. Now, more and more private land exists. But since most of it is in the hands of those who conisdered by many citizens as dishonest or shady businessmen, few people respect the property rights. So, unless it's a farm owned by some high-profile businessman with body guards, people won't even consider it as private property.
What it practically means for the camper/traveller is that you really have much more freedom as far as where you can go and walk.
Unlike the US, you can, for example, just stop on the curb on the road, get out of your car and walk anywhere in the forest, swim in the lake if you see one and not worry that this is some motel's property or protected forest or private property and the forest is likely to be really wild - the way it was 100 years ago. And if you get further away from big cities, it will be even more wild and you can walk in the forest for hours and not see any sings/roads/amenities/etc.
Outsisde St Petersburg, in August, there are lots of edible mushrooms and berries that you can pick and people in Russia love to do that. |
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MrSpice
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Posts: 3436
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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That's a great link! I read only the first two pages so far, but he illustrates everything you say. It's very good reading for anyone - even if you're not going to be camping or cycling. I'm not going to bring my bicycle to Russia, but it sounds like fun. Much of the article applies to driving & camping as well. On the second page, he talks about the guy who cycles ONLY in Siberia, and ONLY during winter. Unbelievable... He also talks about the guys in the Russian cycle club who ride from Moscow to St.P in one day. If some people can do it on a bicycle in one day, then I have no concern about doing it by car in several days. Also, he did say that the roads were generally good...
This got me really excited to be there. Less than 4 weeks away... !! |
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