Way to Russia Talk Lounge

uday · WayToRussified Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 323

I'm interested in hearing the Russians view on the events in Ukraine. Do you think there'll be a civil war if the real winner isn't given the leadership? Will mother Russia intervene? What does the future hold for U?

cyndy22 · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:32 am Post subject:

I just emailed my friend in Ukraine about this. The previous email I received from Yuriy was how tense the election was. Apparently tension has increased with the protesting. I am waiting for Yuriy's email to updatee and share his thoughts and feelings about what is going on.

ps isn't it nice to have a civil communication! I am not joking. The forum is a better place when we all are here for news, support and other information and ideas relevant to Russia.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

uday · WayToRussified Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 323

Cheers, I'm interested in hearing about it

wu687 · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:08 am Post subject:

Web Camera Kyiv, Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square)

http://www.1plus1.net/video/camera.php

Dan23 · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:14 am Post subject:

Umm, mother Russia won't intervene on the side of Ющенко. Янукович is Путин's candidate.

Dan

uday · WayToRussified Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 323

Care to elaborate on that dan?

Dan23 · Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:27 am Post subject:

Well, here' s the situation as I understand it:

Yushchenko was projected to win the election if it was carried out fairly, and when he lost, the EU suspected foul play and called for an investigation, and foreign leaders are hesitant to recognize the results (including the USA -
http://www.lenta.ru/world/2004/11/24/powell/ ).
Vladimir Putin and Leonid Kuchma (outgoing leader) are both staunch backers of Yanukovich. Ukraine has been leaning dangerously toward falling back under Russia's military umbrella (its own military is quite broke). It seems Putin is slowly trying to rebuild some kind of post-soviet coalition. He has some experience with installing pro-Kremlin candidates already (think Chechnya). I hear Belarus is already pretty much under Putin's wing.

If the protests are any indication, political progressives aren't accepting the result. (I wish that would happen here - my sig refers to the USA).

Correct me where I'm wrong.

Dan

Edit: Ющенко gets most of his support from nationalists in the western half, while Янукович gets his support from the highly industrialized eastern half. I think Янукович even wants to make Russian the national language.

36_CKOTUHOK · Frequent Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 29

Orange zombies.. huh..
I can name myself "democrat", "the one who fights for freedom", "savior of the nation" - byt I will be myself anyway, and my thoughts won't change. Why Yshenko, who has stolen $2bln only in 90-92, would became honest now? His hands are too dirty to trust him anymore.

Dan23 · Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:02 pm Post subject:

As far as I know, from a foreign perspective, the debate at this point is not about who would be a more honest leader, but whether the election was stolen. Many western governments - including the US (how's that for irony?) - believe that it was.

Dan

castilho · Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:24 pm Post subject: Ukraine

C'mon guys. Civil war is too catastrophic. Things are not like that so far. We have some brazilians football players there - Kleber and Diogo Rincón - defending Dynamo of Kiev and they say everything is under control, except the protests in the big square. They are not afraid. The life goes on. And they'll play tomorrow.

36_CKOTUHOK · Frequent Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 29

I think the only way to save Ukraine is to divide it and make Yanukovich to govern eastern part, while Yshenko is to govern Western part. And some kind of counsil will be used to make decisions which affect both parts.
Anyway, east will never accept Yshenko. People understand that they will face Yshenko revenge, so they support Yanukovich.

Mogsfan · WayToRussified Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 490

Dan23 · Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:43 pm Post subject:

How could one country "bring down" the other if they are both totally sovereign? I see secession on political grounds as basically a lite form of self-determination, which I always support.
For example, Chechnya. I don't see why Russia has to insist on keeping this tiny region inside its border. It seems to do more harm than good. Or can you imagine an Israeli/Palestinian state? It would be civil war.
I know these are extreme examples, but the concept is still applicable.
Not that I think every country should break up into lots of little parts based on political rivalries, but it may have advantages. For example (violent cases): if one ethnic group starts oppressing the other, isn't international intervention easier if the violence is happening across borderlines, instead of being a civil conflict?
I recognize how tentative unity can make a country stronger. But I don't think it should be forced upon people with a division along an established border (like in Ukraine). The only big fear I would have about Ukraine splitting up is the eastern half falling under Putin's "democratic" management.

These are just my thoughts - feel free to shoot down any part of them.

Dan

By the way, here's an interesting article putting the situation in some international perspective, from the San Francisco Chronicle:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/11/30/EDGDHA2DG21.DTL

Dr Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

Why keep it?
First, Oil
Second : Mafia
Third : Pride
Fourth : Domino effect with Tartar republics
Fifth: War keeps a government in power- aka George Orwell's 1984 and the USA(No president has been defeated in a time of crisis)

Dr Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

Okay what about Romanian Elections? Why is the west not crying about them?
Why is the focus on Ukraine and not both corrupted elections?