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Jutrzenkapolska
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Joined: 16 Sep 2004
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 Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| Hahahaha, the Alternate Dictionaries. I love that website! |
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ow28
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Joined: 09 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Jutrzenkapolska wrote: | OOOOOOOhhhh, now I understand
"Kurwa" !  |
In Russian we have the word as well. I believe it's Polish .
And "bydlo" - means very stupid and rude prson suitable for general labor only. It's considered as V-E-E-E-E-RY offensive!
It's Polish as well. (???) |
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Jutrzenkapolska
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Yes it is. Bydlo=cattle, Bydlak, byk= bull or stupid peasant.
I had no idea that's an offensive word.In Poland, they might remark about a slow moving crowd of children "co za bydlo".Thanks for telling me, now I will know not to use it if I visit Russia. 
Is it also true that our word "żyd'" is considered anti-Semetic in Russian?Because in Poland, it's about as offensive as "Jew", in other words not at all. |
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ow28
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Jutrzenkapolska wrote: |
Is it also true that our word "żyd'" is considered anti-Semetic in Russian?Because in Poland, it's about as offensive as "Jew", in other words not at all. |
Exactly the same word with the same meaning exists in Russian. I suspect its origin was from ancient Russian naming for Khazar kaganat: "Zemlia Zidovskaya" (appr 8th century). After revolution it was banned and the new unknown before "evrey" word appeared in Russian. The first one got status of derogatory. Before revolution it was an ordinary name of an ordinary nation.  (I hope the smile is in eyeglasses to show how smart I am ) |
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Camrade
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Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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Location: Санкт-Петербург
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, and in ancient Kiev there were gates which were called "Zhidovskie vorota"....  |
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milonguero
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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Location: San Francisco, US
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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In Russian word "evrey" existed before the revolution too (see Brockgauz andEfron enciclopedic dictionary), it simply originates to the different stem (comp. Italian "ebreo"). Probably over some extended time (but not in ten years) "evrey" became neutral, while "zyd" acquired a clear derogatory connotation. But in XIXth century it has already been used in derogatory sence, although it seems that its degree of offensifeness increased since.
"bydlo" in Russian is used to denominate rude, uneducated, primitive and errogant person, also have all the family of derivatives: "bydlyanye privychki" - bydlo habits (i.e. spitting on the floor or anything of that kind), etc. |
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ow28
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| milonguero wrote: | In Russian word "evrey" existed before the revolution too (see Brockgauz andEfron enciclopedic dictionary), it simply originates to the different stem (comp. Italian "ebreo"). Probably over some extended time (but not in ten years) "evrey" became neutral, while "zyd" acquired a clear derogatory connotation. But in XIXth century it has already been used in derogatory sence, although it seems that its degree of offensifeness increased since.
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Zhid is the only originally RUSSIAN word. It was used as official in ancient Russian Chronicles. Evrey is of foreign origin . The second word even now is not spread widely in some distant villages of central Russia. BTW sparrows are named zhid there as well. In XIXth century it was the only official name for the nation. It was forbidden and became derogatory after the ban.
Like "negro" for example in USA. In Russia it's still normal name for the race and "black" is derogatory. The matter is that words are not responsible for its senses. Words are neutral.
For example. Goverment can issue a decree to call swines by a new name like "pegeon" and ban the word "swine". After awhile everybody will imagine the dirty fat enimal when they hear "pegeon". But they will be cautious to say the "swine" word because it wiil become a banned and derogatory name for swines. |
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Skip
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Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Location: Planet Warez
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:05 am Post subject: |
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The general swear word I kept encountering was "Blyad" which I thought was more or less like saying "Shit" or "Bollocks" as opposed to anything verging on the more profane...
I think I also caught "Zute" a couple of times, but loads of words in Russian are the same as they are in French of course... (cauchemar, trottoir, chaussee, homard... mmmm...) 
When you watch a western film on Russian TV it's amusing to see everything from "bloody hell..." to "Motherf*cker..." equivocally transliterated to "Chort.." and last year I was witness to the "unofficial snip" of the entire opening scene of Basic Instinct... even if we later still did get a 2 nanosecond glimpse of Sharon Stones snatch 
Cultures cannot always translate...  |
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Jutrzenkapolska
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Joined: 16 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of cultures not always being able to translate-
The great American film critic Roger Ebert, reviewing the first Monty Python film wrote what a curious experience seeing it with an American audience. According to him, he would laugh out loud when everyone was staring in bewilderment at the screen or everyone else would be laughing when he wasn't.He concluded something like 'National humors and characteristics travel badly. I remember being at the Moscow Film Festival and hearing "2001:A Space Odyssey" being criticized as American propaganda about the superior interior design of our spaceships' (Too bad he didn't respond with something like "It's about man's place in the universe") |
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Camrade
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Location: Санкт-Петербург
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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2Skip
Our translators who translate "Piss off, you motherf*cking prick" as "Go away" for example - spoil all the movies when you don't hear original text
That's a great problem... so I buy DVD's and watch those movies in original |
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Skip
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Camrade wrote: | 2Skip
Our translators who translate "Piss off, you motherf*cking prick" as "Go away" for example - spoil all the movies when you don't hear original text
That's a great problem... so I buy DVD's and watch those movies in original |
Couldn't agree with you more, l had to do the same thing... but then found this damned rentals store in Nab Chelny (Oscars...) was touting pirated disks and that they sometimes refused to work or were poor quality...
Which reminds me... the quality of the over-dubbing of Russian language in many movies is atrocious... I saw films on TV where ONE linguist had been every single character in the production... talk about confusing, you didn't dare blink when watching the TV...  |
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Jutrzenkapolska
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Oh,you haven't seen bad dubbing until you've seen Polish video or tv. Well, maybe you have.
But Polish translations are horrendous- completely off-tempo, half of the English dialouge audible, so slow and translation that must have been done on a computer program.I swear, they must have a one guy somewhere in the back of a studio in Warsaw who dubbs each and everyone because not only is a whole movie in his voice, they all seem to be in his voice droningonandonandonmonotonously. |
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Skip
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Posts: 283
Location: Planet Warez
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| It's gotta be the same guy who is freelancing for the whole Eastern Block then... I'd really like to get my hands on the sad git |
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