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Is valentines day important in Russia? Goto page Previous  1, 2

Way to Russia Talk Lounge Forum Index -> Russian People

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vorteks VIP Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 571 Location: European Union	Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Is valentines day important in Russia? AliceFromMoscow wrote: Skip wrote: If Russian men are so great then why are there some 750,000 Russian girls who leave Russia each year (many eventually return by the way) Do you mean that russian population decreases almost a million every year? This is not true Demographic situation in the Russian Federation By the early 2000, the resident population of the Russian Federation was 145.6 millionpeople. During the past year the number of the Russians reduced by 768.4 thousand people or by 0.5 per cent. It is the most considerable figure of the annual decrease during the whole depopulation period which has started since 1992. During the past eight years the population of Russia decreasedby 2.8 million or by 2 per cent. The natural population loss is the main depopulation factor which is stable and long-term bynature. In 1999, the number of deaths exceeded the number of births by 929.6 thousand people or by1.8 times. The total natural loss for the past eight years reached 5.9 million people. The most dramatic problem of the contemporary demographic development of Russia is thehigh level of mortality. Some easing of the negative aspects within the mortality situationdevelopment in 1995-1998 was the short-term one. In many respects, it was caused by the agechanges in the population structure, decrease of the number of the deaths due to the accidents, poisonings and injuries, and also diseases of the circulatory system, i.e. the causes of the excessive rise of mortality observed in the early 1990s. In 1999 the number of deaths increased by 8 per cent as compared with 1998. Thus the crudedeath rate for the population of Russia (the number of deaths per 1000 persons) increased from 13.6 to 14.7 (it was higher only in 1994-1995, 15.7 and 15.0 respectively). The life expectancy at birth in 1999 for the population of Russia reduced more than by one year and became lower than 66 years (for males - by 1.5 years and again lower than 60 years). In Russia, if nothing dramatic occurs to encourage larger families, the retreat from childbearing will continue and accelerate. Two children in a family will certainly no longer be the norm and, as a consequence, Russia could become a nation of only one hundred million in thirty years
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Dan23 Frequent Guest Joined: 13 Sep 2004 Posts: 53 Location: Davis, CA	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: cyndy22 wrote: Thank you Katayara for sharing your positive feeling about Valentines Day. I don't understand why people are so cynical about love. It's not love we're cynical about, it's the commercial holiday. The most momentous thing that happens is a huge wave of spending. Then again, perhaps spending is what we Americans are most in love with. In that way, I'd say the holiday is genuine. Personally, I celebrate Singles Awareness Day (SAD). Dan
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Skip Talk Show Host Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 283 Location: Planet Warez	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Is valentines day important in Russia? AliceFromMoscow wrote: Skip wrote: If Russian men are so great then why are there some 750,000 Russian girls who leave Russia each year (many eventually return by the way) Do you mean that russian population decreases almost a million every year? This is not true There is an article which was published about 2 years ago in Pravda which is where these figures were claimed for the FSU. The article itself concerned an extremist politician who wanted to introduce legislation to stop the exodus, and I seem to recall it was then also picked up by Western TV as well. There was also talk of how politicians could encourage Russian people to have larger families. The politician who began the matter was doing so to also highlight imigration from Russias satellite nations (by which he meant the people many Russians name the Caf-Cas... an ethnic group whose presence he claimed was most unwelcome in Russian society... but which was viewed as a xenophobic move and nothing less, so fell on deaf ears...) Legislation was never introduced of course, it would have been far too drastic a move of course, but it did not stop statistics being aired none-the-less. The upshot of the claimed figures that was argued by the Government was the fact that vast numbers of women did return after finding out that life overseas, with a man they perhaps hardly knew before travelling, was not always quite so rosy as they'd first believed. So no... it was clear that I did not claim a diminuative aggregate figure of this height, but if you'd read my original comments fully then you wouldn't have had to ask on this point. Look at the demographic figures for the population of Russia at different times in the past few decades and you will see that population growth is lower than that of most neighbouring countries, that the balance of the population is not equally divided between the sexes (eg; there ARE more men in Russia than women) and this inbalance alone is cited as causing certain social problems. So how do you explain the emerging demographic statistics? The lower than normal growth of the population of the FSU (not only compared to neigbouring countries but also to past Russian statistics...) and the hundreds of agencies and websites which help Russian women find foreign husbands? That's all pure fiction to wit? You think all your Russian girls stay at home and are not lured to the west in very significant numbers? Hmmm... an interesting viewpoint, but one which will not stand scrutiny... At least Vorteks has some sense... ============================================================== A quick bash on Google will find numerous articles which substantiate the sort of figures my original post put forwards... and confirm "emergency imigration" is all that's buoying up the true Russian population... VIZ... and I rest my case http://www.leftgatekeepers.com/articles/RussiaIsDoomedBySaidIbrahayev.htm Russia is Doomed: Catastrophic Post-Cold War Demographic Situation by Said Ibrahayev Kavkaz Center , 6 January 2005 www.globalresearch.ca 17 January 2005 The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/IBR501A.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The words that are in the heading are not a fruit of the author's imagination, but it is a quite substantiated prediction based on specific figures and facts, which are a subject of discussion right in Russia today. It is a matter of catastrophic demographic situation. Ethnic Russian population of the Russian Federation is rapidly decreasing. Entire cities and villages are ceasing to exist due to the lack of population in them. According to official figures of National Forum, «Present and Future of Russia's Population», which took place in Moscow last month, 11,000 villages and 290 cities have disappeared from the map of the Russian Federation. 13,000 villages are still on the map, but they remained with no inhabitants in them. Two villages are disappearing in Russia each day, which in one year is equal to a small province. Deputy Minister of Health and Social Development of Russia, Vladimir Starodubtsev, said that Russia's population has decreased by 9 million over the last 10 years. Moreover, depopulation affected virtually entire Russia. Even according to understated figures, the number of the Russian population is decreasing 700 to 800 thousand each year (other reports show that the figure is 1.2 million a year). Since 1992 death rate among Russians exceeded birth rate and the difference has only been increasing ever since then. Male death rate in Russia is one of the highest in the world. At the same time 30% of the dead are men of working years. Average life of men is 13 years less than that among women (women - 72 years, men - 58.8 years). Main reasons are alcoholism, oncology (cancer), traumas and poisonings. Deaths from abuse of alcohol in Russia skyrocketed 3.5 times over the past 5 years. Suicide rate exceeds Central European figures 2.5 times among males and 1.5 times among females. In Russia there are twice as many deaths in traffic accidents as there are in European states. Russian youth ages 15 to 19 started dying 40 % more often. Out of today's generation of 16-year-olds, only 54 % will live until they reach their retirement age. In 1998 for the first time the number of retirees in Russia exceeded the number of children and juveniles under 16 by 110,000. For January 1, 2004, this number has grown to 4.2 million. Right now the number of children under 14 is 2.5 times lower than the number of retirees (10.6 and 27.2 million accordingly). According to the predictions that have been made, starting the year 2006 the number of retirees will be growing even more actively and by 2016 it will comprise 25% of the entire Russian population. According to the census of the Russian Federation, the number of ethnic Russians was 104 million out of 144.2 million of the overall population in Russia. Considering the fact that demographic figures in Russia have always been considered to be a national security issue, then proceeding from Soviet/Russian practice of demographic overstatements, you can say for sure that the number of 104 ethnic Russians is set too high and it's already been quite a while since the real number of ethnic Russians sank under the psychological mark of 100 million. The signs of apparent worsening of demographic situation for Russians have been seen right in Moscow as well. This week Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper («Young Communist Truth») published the figures of ethnic structure of the population of the Russian capital. Senior research officer of Center for Geopolitical Research of Institute of Geography under Russian Academy of Sciences, Olga Vendina, whose research is based on the records from civil status registries in all districts of Moscow over the years of 1993 - 2003, 'ethnically tinged' neighborhoods have already been formed in Moscow. In these parts of the city Russian population is constantly decreasing, while the percentage of residents of other ethnic backgrounds is systematically increasing. Furthermore, it is in Moscow's historical center, where birthrate among non-Russian population is considerably higher than birthrate among Russians, who are being naturally ousted to the capital's outskirts. The largest ethnic diasporas in Moscow, whose numbers are constantly growing due to sharp increase of newborns throughout the last 10 years are Azeris, Tatars, Armenians and Ukrainians. At the same time each 5th Russian woman marries a man from the Caucasus. But that's not all. About a year ago Novye Izvestiya ('New Tidings') newspaper published some figures about ethnical structure of Russia, compiled by Jewish University of Jerusalem based on the 2002 census. According to that sensational document, in 2002 the number of Chinese population in Russia reached almost 3.5 million, and thus the Chinese have now taken the fourth place in Russia's population, following Russians (104 million), Tatars (7.2 million), and Ukrainians (5.1 million). 15 years ago there were only 5 thousand Chinese living in Russia. According to the predictions made by the experts, by the year 2013 every fourth person in Russia will be a Chinese.
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AliceFromMoscow WayToRussified Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 411	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Is valentines day important in Russia? Skip wrote: [That's all pure fiction to wit? You think all your Russian girls stay at home and are not lured to the west in very significant numbers? Hmmm... an interesting viewpoint, but one which will not stand scrutiny... Now show me(make a quotation and post link to that my post) where i said such thing. As for population decrease, i know that its decreasing. What i meant was that it is happening not because one million immigrates, as you claimed. This is not true that one million immigrates every year. Look at vorteks statistics, it says: During the past year the number of the Russians reduced by 768.4 thousand people or by 0.5 per cent. It means that population reduced by 768k people all in all, including deaths and immigration. But in your previous posting you claim that 750k GIRLS immigrate. Do you mean that there were only 18k deaths during the whole year? Wow that must be a record, country with such population and only 18k deaths during entire year And i'm pissed off that you describe russian men as such terrible people, and all that post was super exagerrated, and im not talking to you anymore and i wont read this topic anymore, no sense in such argueing, so if you wanna apologize for insulting half of the nation and me, you can PM me. Nevermind though, i don't care. Too bad, ignore button is technically impossible for such forum. See, why i don't like to take part in such discussions in this forum(politics, population, or any other "serious" topics). Because for some reason all you people do is attack everyone's opinion, call each other(me in this case) stupid(look at Skip's post intonation), and the only result you get is people being pissed off and annoyed by each other.
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Skip Talk Show Host Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 283 Location: Planet Warez	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: @AlicefromMoscow... Russias population is falling, and without nit-picking, the figures I originally stated seem to be holding out as fairly accurate... not that I said it was a net figure if you care to study my original comments... I just said that... "around 750,000 women leave the FSU each year... and that many of them return..." In truth my statement merely highlighted the reported impact of ONE aspect of the various reasons behind the dwindling demographic statistics... I did not say what preportion of the claimed 750,000 returned... so nobody had any business to then quote me as saying the population was falling by that figure every year due an exodus of 750,000 mail order brides who were never going to be heard of again... Perhaps your thoughts in the matter are exclusively with Russia, and figures can be a little misleading if you remember that former FSU countries may include the Ukraine, Byelorussia and the Latvian/Baltic nations... By effectively branding my claim as nonsense when you quoted me and you said with fair aplomb "it's not true" - so it would be much nicer if you didn't now subsequently complain when the original point was reinforced by myself (and by Vorteks) with references to third party material in support! I don't intend to quote you further... it's pretty plain that you were making it seem like my earlier revelations were nothing but fiction, and now you don't want to gracefully eat humble pie it's really not my problem I'm not at all "pissed off" in any way, I'm very sorry if you are! But of course I'm not willing to be made responsible for what happens in any thread after other people hit the reply button and add potentially inaccurate comments... in the same way whatever is said here must never be taken personally at all... The bottom line is that, whether it's an annual fall of 500,000 or 1,000,000 that births in Russia are not keeping pace with deaths and emigration... and part of the cause is what I highlighted originally!
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scarlett Frequent Guest Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 25	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: Alice do not be discouraged from voicing your opinions Skip does not have a monopoly on intelligence. Maybe if he did he would realise that he does not know everything and not assume such a patronising manner when talking to people. His opinion is purely that an opinion nothing more. Does he have issues with all women?
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Skip Talk Show Host Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 283 Location: Planet Warez	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:29 pm    Post subject: scarlett wrote: Skip... <SNIP>... Does he have issues with all women? Arsk ME if you'd like to know... there's little point in addressing the question anywhere else... and if you cannot recognise and accept BANTER for what it is... instead taking it as a form of condescension... all I can say it that you've never seen some of the forums which I am more used to... Or don't possess any SOH perhaps... Damn... but thanks for the intelligence remark all the same... trouble is this thread's running somewhat dry... So the message seems to be... it's OK to bash the USA on foreign policy and Iraq... but that it's NOT OK to bash anything Russian (Belgian or Canadian...) and especially anything feminine... at least, not without written permission from the Kremlin?!?! And it's obviously standard issue here for cotton wool lined keyboards and an online stress counsellor is clearly urgently required to be appointed too... I think NOT somehow...
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patrick_b Frequent Guest Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 44	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:13 pm    Post subject: Russian population changes: Population growth rate: -0.45% (2004 est.) Birth rate: 9.63 births/1,000 population (2004 est.) Death rate: 15.17 deaths/1,000 population (2004 est.) Net migration rate: 1.02 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2004 est.) (for anyone who has trouble understanding that: The population of Russia decreased by 0.45% last year. They had a 0.96% increase from new births, but a 1.52% loss to deaths, an a 0.1% gain of people moving there -- this means the difference between those coming and those going, not just the total coming Given the current population of approxiamtely 143.5 M, this means: - 1.377 M births - 2.177 M deaths - 146 K more people moved in than moved out. ) So yes, the population is shrinking, but given the positive net migration rate, there are more people moving to Russia than leaving. The real problem lies in the low birth rate and high death rate -- out of the 226 countries for which the CIA has statistics, Russia is 206th in births/K (extremely low) and 33rd in deaths/K (fairly high). The U.S., for comparison: Population growth rate: 0.92% (2004 est.) Birth rate: 14.13 births/1,000 population (2004 est.) Death rate: 8.34 deaths/1,000 population (2004 est.) Net migration rate: 3.41 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2004 est.)
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Dr-Fauste Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:15 pm    Post subject: Skip it is pretty bad when you are quoting from Pravda. I think Pravda mentioned that all 750,000 Russian women were taken by Aliens to breed super Aliens. You can bash Canada, I just bash you back. Skip, you are so fun to bash, because you have a funny wit to come back. Quote: As for population decrease, i know that its decreasing. What i meant was that it is happening not because one million immigrates, as you claimed. This is not true that one million immigrates every year. Look at vorteks statistics, it says: During the past year the number of the Russians reduced by 768.4 thousand people or by 0.5 per cent. It means that population reduced by 768k people all in all, including deaths and immigration. But in your previous posting you claim that 750k GIRLS immigrate. Do you mean that there were only 18k deaths during the whole year? Wow that must be a record, country with such population and only 18k deaths during entire year Both of you suck at math and stats. Reduction in popution will be various reasons, but it is a net effect. So to conclude that it is immigration in total false. People die, people immigrate, People immigrate to, People have children, and there is other reasons also.
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patrick_b Frequent Guest Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 44	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: Addendum: Just because I like statistics, I downloaded the birth/death figures for all countries, and ranked them by the difference between births and deaths. Only 23 of the 226 countries had less births than deaths. Russia was 3rd -- only two countries had a bigger gap between births and deaths. Botswana was the worst, Ukraine was second.
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Skip Talk Show Host Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 283 Location: Planet Warez	Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:34 pm    Post subject: Isn't the difference between a statistician and a politician the fact that one believes he understands all the figures, and that the other understands only the figures in which he believes? In other words nobody was expected to split hairs over the issue. The fact is that anyone who wasn't aware of the issue can no longer claim to be naive regards the same, even though... truthfully... I couldn't give a fucking rats ass what reason anybody requires the figures for... nor why such figures are even of interest to them or how they prefer to interpret them Were I to suggest the temperature in Samara right now is -23'c then I am sure some wisecrack would come back with a difference of opinion of one degree, not because it's important... but just because they hope that it would stir up emotions and incite pointless debate...
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scarlett Frequent Guest Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 25	Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:14 pm    Post subject: Ok Skip, ill ask you. Do you have a problem with women, and by the way i forgive your spelling mistake. :wink:
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UkrainianPoljak Just Starting Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 8 Location: Toronto	Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:30 am    Post subject: Excuse me Polska, I am Polish man because I was born in Wieliczka. I am not homophobe. I am a homosexual. Please stop using stereotypes.
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Jutrzenkapolska VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534	Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:19 am    Post subject: Oh, okay, in that case I'll believe you aren't a homophobe. But most of the Polish men my age that I know never miss an opportunity to make an anti-gay joke.
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