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Guest
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 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Brent wrote: | Americans/Canadians are made up from cultures all over the world, and styles and colour of clothing are always very different. In Moscow most people look ethnically Russian (for obvious reasons) and style, clothing colour, and facial expressions are unique. If you look different, people stare, and I mean really STARE, which can be uncomfortable. Trying to blend in with the locals just makes things easier, and your trip more enjoyable. You'll know what I'm talking about once you've been to Moscow.  |
We don't STARE. It is normal in our culture to look at each other, unlike in homophobic Western culture. Is it not openness and friendliness why people come to Russia? Or perhaps you would like Russians to be as cold and as self centered as people in the West are? Look back at them, because if you look in the distance instead that creates a perception of arrogance. |
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Brent
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't intend to cause offense to anyone by using the word "stare." It wasn't meant to be negative, just an observation. In general Russian people are friendly, and I was sharing my first impressions of being a foriegner in Moscow. It takes a little getting used to many people looking directly at you, and I want other travellers to be aware of what they will encounter. I hope that clears things up.  I'll be back in April, and I'm looking forward to it! |
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waytorussia
Frequent Guest
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:17 am Post subject: To Guest |
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To Guest:
what is this thing about "homophobic western culture"? I think you're taking things too close to your heart. I agree with Brent that people may stare if they see something different, and there's nothing offensive in this, it's just a fact. You know, three years ago, when I was walking outside in Moscow center wearing sandals barefoot (in Summer) every second person was staring at my feet in disbelief. Not that my sandals were too shocking or that people were weird, it's just the way it is, and it takes time to get used to it. Anyway, Guest, I don't think, that you're Russian, otherwise, you wouldn't care about anything and your spelling wouldn't be so good (joke ) |
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lisa
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:33 am Post subject: being inconspicuous |
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Usual Suspect wrote that "There is also the small matter of the way us non-russians walk."
Would U.S. or anyone else care to elaborate on this matter? I find this interesting because I can often tell foreigners, regardless of race, from Americans by the way they move, although I can't discern specific nationality. For example, foreigners, in general, seem to walk more slowly, take smaller steps, have more restrained body language (upright as opposed to forward tilt, very moderate arm movement) and often have an air of sensuality generally lacking in Americans.
Any comments? |
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Randy
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 115
Location: Texas, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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I could see how some could be offended by this statement from our GUEST
writer. It does open a can of worms to be scutinized doesn't it?
{We don't STARE. It is normal in our culture to look at each other, unlike in homophobic Western culture. Is it not openness and friendliness why people come to Russia? Or perhaps you would like Russians to be as cold and as self centered as people in the West are? Look back at them, because if you look in the distance instead that creates a perception of arrogance.}
I have lived and worked in Russia several years. During this time I have learned many things, but still have much more to learn. I suppose I will never be an expert on the Russian way of life, the culture, or a master of their language. I am from Texas, so I could not be any more Western than that. The work I do in Russia is completely volunteer work, so I can't be accused of making money from someone else's misery. My work is done in a children's hospital burn unit, and lukemia ward. I also work with Russian war veterans from Afghanistan, Angola, and Chechena. To our guest writer, I do not consider myself to be cold, arrogant, or self centered as you described us Westerners'.
One of the things I enjoy doing when I have spare time in Russia (St.Petersburg) is going to Peter & Pauls Fortress, or maybe to a park on Nevsky and just watch the people, no, I don't stare, and I don't notice anyone staring at me. I watch the way people walk, I notice the clothing styles, and different mannerisms people have. I know who are Russian's, and I know who are foreigners, and it is interesting to see the differences. As for a difference in walking between a Russian person, and a Western, there is none. As for clothing style, yes, there is a difference, but it is no worse, nor better than anyone else's style. Thier style of clothing uses more dark, or subdued colors, but I believe that has changed much since 1992. As for mannerisms like arrogance, being self centered etc, well, there are those sort of people in all countries, but we have to just ignore them don't we? One thing we American's have a habit of doing is looking people in the eye when we greet someone, a stranger, on the street with a "Good morning, how are you today?". To me it is just being friendly, but in 1992, it was found an odd thing to do, which one of my close Russian friends explained. I asked my friend if I should not do this, and he said no, of course not, I lke it. He also explained why Russian people tend to look down while walking, and avoid eye contact. It is an education that I could not receive anywhere else.
It is true that I don't go to Russia just because the Russian people are open, and friendly, but all of the people I know there, and are friends with are this way. My family there is the same way. They treat me with warmth, and respect, not because I am an American or foreigner, but because they believe they will receive back what they give. They are as indifferent to my culture, as I am towards theirs. So, when people from different cultures can drop all preconceived pretenses, life, and travel is much more enjoyable.
Randy |
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UsualSuspect
WayToRussified
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 324
Location: The Land of Oz
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:26 pm Post subject: Walking tall |
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Randy/Lisa & everyone..
Randy, I'll have to disagree with you on the walking thing. I hang around Siberia which has a lot less foreigners than the western side of the Urals. My girlfriend pointed out that Russians generally traipsed the streets in the gait that Lisa described. For me, being from Oz and walking at a rapid pace, I'm upright, head up, looking around at anyone and anything and arms swinging like I'm trying to take off 
I did notice, as Dmitri and Katja pointed out, that your local citizenry did have a "closed" type of body language. Noticeable in most of the guys. Arms in jackets generally and a sort of stiff kneed gait with eyes downcast. Maybe it was just the cold?
I went camping way out nowhere in the summer and even then it was noticeable, except in the young kids who appeared to me to be just like any youngsters anywhere else.
She explained that it was a habit developed in Soviet Times. I don't know, so I'll take her word for it.
And as Brent described, the "staring" thing happened a lot to me, but probably because people thought I was weird. My girlfriend said people would look and talk about me because they would all be dressed for the cold and I'd be in a t-shirt. It's just a cultural difference and never bothered me, just different from what you get used to in your own country.
Regards
UsualSuspect |
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USATraveler
Just Starting
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject: Tips from 3 months in Moscow |
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| For men, black & browns fit in - along with a mink hat. Absoutely no other colors - for men that is - the women wear anything. Don't use a backpack unless you want to stand out as a tourist or really are a student. Stay in the crowds when going through or around Red Square - the Militia generally stay on the fringes of the action picking off loners to shake down. If possible always go out w/someone else - that's just another set of eyes that can prevent getting your pocket picked. There is a scam going around that involves tossing a wad of $ in in front of you, the idea being you'll instinctively bend to pick it up - DON'T as their partner behind you will bump you & lift your wallet/pocket stuff. If this happens just KICK the wad away, into traffic or the nearest mud puddle, & keep on walking. Don't buy one of the junk fur hats sold in Red Square unless you want everyone to know you are a tourist from a mile away. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Tips from 3 months in Moscow |
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| USATraveler wrote: | | For men, black & browns fit in - along with a mink hat. Absoutely no other colors - for men that is - the women wear anything. Don't use a backpack unless you want to stand out as a tourist or really are a student. Stay in the crowds when going through or around Red Square - the Militia generally stay on the fringes of the action picking off loners to shake down. If possible always go out w/someone else - that's just another set of eyes that can prevent getting your pocket picked. There is a scam going around that involves tossing a wad of $ in in front of you, the idea being you'll instinctively bend to pick it up - DON'T as their partner behind you will bump you & lift your wallet/pocket stuff. If this happens just KICK the wad away, into traffic or the nearest mud puddle, & keep on walking. Don't buy one of the junk fur hats sold in Red Square unless you want everyone to know you are a tourist from a mile away. |
What kind of nonsense is this? Or perhaps you are describing your own home town in USA? |
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Lora
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I'm a 46 year old Australian woman who travelled to Russia, alone, in September 2003. I speak no Russian and stayed for 4 weeks, 2 of which were spent in Moscow.
Before I left I read a lot of information on this site. Some of the posts made me unnecessarily nervous.
Everyones experience is different . Mine, as a middle aged woman, would be very different to that of a young guy.
I felt completely at home in the street. No-one stared, no-one tried to cheat me or steal from me. I smiled at people and they smiled back. I was never stopped by the militia. I didn't disguise myself and I wore colours....Russians do too!!
I walked 1-1.5 hours in all directions from the hotel during the days and never had a moments trouble. I didn't go out at night alone....I wouldn't do that in Sydney either.
Some people didn't know I was foreign because they asked me directions in Russian. I'm sure many people knew I was but they were far too busy with their own lives to be concerned with me 
Russians are reserved, but friendly and helpful when asked....just like most of us
Forget about all this nonsense of disguising yourself and only wearing black ...or looking at the ground and never into someones eyes. It's rubbish.
Russia was wonderful and Moscow is a beautiful city. I can't wait to return this year
When I read some of the posts her I ask myself "What Moscow did these people visit?....and in what decade?" |
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David-M-Rowell
Frequent Guest
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 29
Location: Seattle, WA USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Bravo, Lora
Well said. I completely agree.
Moscow is no worse, nor no better, than any other large western city.
Cheers
David. |
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Benidorm-Bill
Just Starting
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject: There are neighborhoods here where you should not go??????? |
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I'll be coming to Moscow to work soon and this line stood out from your message. I was wondering if you could maybe give me some idea of the neighbourhoods you're talking about as I don't know anything about Moscow, you know just so I know.
Thanks |
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paulm
Just Starting
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 3
Location: uk
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:58 pm Post subject: wad of $$$ scam |
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[quote="Anonymous"] | USATraveler wrote: | | For men, black & browns fit in - along with a mink hat. Absoutely no other colors - for men that is - the women wear anything. Don't use a backpack unless you want to stand out as a tourist or really are a student. Stay in the crowds when going through or around Red Square - the Militia generally stay on the fringes of the action picking off loners to shake down. If possible always go out w/someone else - that's just another set of eyes that can prevent getting your pocket picked. There is a scam going around that involves tossing a wad of $ in in front of you, the idea being you'll instinctively bend to pick it up - DON'T as their partner behind you will bump you & lift your wallet/pocket stuff. If this happens just KICK the wad away, into traffic or the nearest mud puddle, & keep on walking. Don't buy one of the junk fur hats sold in Red Square unless you want everyone to know you are a tourist from a mile away. |
I assure you that it is not nonsense, I am embarrased to admit I was robbed of $230 this way in April 2004..however it was my own silly fault by being tempted..I did enjoy Moscow and the rest of my trip to Beijing. |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | | From reading all the posts here, one may surmise that Moscow is such a horrible place. How many of the Russians here that are so self critical have been to ,say, New York. I have been living here for the last 11 years. Everyone wears black, people's faces are covered with grayish residue from polluted air, and if you are riding subway (metro) better dont look at any one, it makes people very angry. I witness people fighting (verbally) on the train almost daily. There are neighborhoods here where you should not go to even in the broad daylight. Yet nobody is asking what one should dress like to blend in among Americans. |
To the Guest-
Excuse my rudeness but what city are you talking about because that is not New York. I've lived here all my life and never seen any of this. You must just live in a bad area.No one asks how to look like a New Yorker because there is such a hodgepodge of nationalities here it's likely there aren't two people on a given street from the same country . |
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Atomcat
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:11 am Post subject: Heard |
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Last edited by Atomcat on Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DLT
Just Starting
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 7
Location: St Augustine, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:16 am Post subject: Adopting also |
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| When are you going to Russia for your adoption?? I am also....maybe it is about the same time?? |
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