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Filimon
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 97
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 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| torpedo_eight wrote: | vorteks, Yes, I remember clearly the day the oil lobby was out to my house to encourage me to use as much of it as I wanted.  With no contact whatsoever with this country, it's just amazing what a grasp you have of just how things work here. 
And there was nothing unconscious about associating NATO with the US Army. The US Army is part of NATO, last time I checked.
So Europe's using no fossil fuels whatsoever. Amazing. And you're completely energy independent. I'm learning so much from you.
Unfortunately, I learned how to bullshit in the 2nd grade and have since moved on to other things, but thanks for the lesson. You say you expect sincerity, but how would someone as cynical as you recognize it? No matter what I've offered, whatever I've said is a lie or dribble from my undereducated nationalist mind - right?
According to you. Really thought we could have an meaningful exchange here, but your socialist dogma's too thick to cut. Pehaps you're just here to run monologues with the unwashed masses.  Enjoy your unemployment, your 35 hour work week and your stagnant economy. We'll find some way to muddle on without your laser-sharp insight and totally open mind. And then maybe someday you can stop loving your country and hating mine. ( Where have I heard that before?)
Au revoir, mon ami. |
35 hour week? That coming from a guy from the country where statutory holiday is a week less than in UK and 2 weeks less than in the rest of Europe.  That is rich! As for stagnant economy... sorry, last time I checked dollar was going down and yet your national debt actually increased, which is slightly contradictory, but there you go.
Enjoy the boom while it lasts. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Torpedo,
You may want to consider wasting your intelligence, energy and breath on WTR's socialist ego maniac Vortyex, who fails to recognize just how superior he thinks his education, country what ever that might be, morals etc. are to US and US citizens who he thinks are all idiots. Yes and Mr. Right has the audacity to philosphize that he has no hatred of other countries or people. One big crock of you know what.
Very interesting that so many people from Russia and former Soviet Republic as well as so many other countries choose to come to the US,become US citizens and think this is the GREATEST country in the world. |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:50 am Post subject: |
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To paraphrase something charming a very wise man once said "America is,of course, the GREATEST DAMN country to ever appear on the face of the world. Except for wherever you're from, that is. "
Of course America and Poland are the two greatest countries in the history of the world.And so are Thailand, Russia, the U.K., Canada and the European Union?
Last edited by Jutrzenkapolska on Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vorteks
VIP
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 571
Location: European Union
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Torpedo,
True on the energy independance, we only went from 25% in the 70s to over 50% home brewed energy today, our biggest oil providers being Norway and Russia.
Reforming your energetic policies back then to secure your independance might have spared you this costly neo colonial foreign policy, and occasionally a few hundred thousands lives.
But unfortunatly anticipation is a marginal value in your culture, you find collective motivation mainly in reaction. The liberal dogmatism led to the energetic problems experienced in California and the collapses like Enron, while preventing the development of a coherent nationwide strategy based on long term investments that escapes the quick returns profit logic (hydroelectricity, nuclear...). Same pathology for energy savings, consumerism opposing the idea of saving and collective strategies like public transports. More or bigger doesnt necessarily mean better, the evidence is the epidemic of obesity that already reduces your life expectancy. If your unidimensional accounting understanding of added value that excludes quality had only domestic consequences, it wouldnt be a concern, but your irresponsability has global consequences : development of instability in colonised areas and global warming.
I don t think the french social system can be regarded as exemplary, since the public corporatisms confiscate lots of growth oportunities. The high level of taxes does have a positive consequence tho : international competitiveness due to optimised organisation cost efficiency (compare the highly profitable Renault to the bankrupting General Motors for example). The scandinavian social experiments are much more convincing, and much better accepted by their population, since they have the insurance that each tax unit they pay is efficiently spent and they manage to conciliate social protection and full employment. As a consequence, wealth is much better redistributed and each individual is responsabilised. Between the socialist and the liberal dogmatisms there is a balanced middle way that places the human being at the center of the system, that s what the E.U is aiming for.
Cyndy, once again, your affective arguments can t lead to a constructive debate. But can you offer an alternative speech that would widen your limited horizon?
Polska, America, from what I know, is a continent, not a country. You might be aware of something I missed, please enlighten me.... |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Vortex,
Exactly why do you feel the need to make yourself out as the only rational person here?
Why do you feel the need to interject so much negativity and hatred of United States and its people?
and how are you such an expert on values in US? God, I live here and do not claim to be an authority on values of US people. Just maybe you might want to consider the fact that people in the US do not all share the same beliefs and values. It's quite nice that our government BTW tolerates such diversity. Diversity BTW I would think would be a good thing in your mind. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Torpedo,
It is clear that you have strong opinions of US and world military. I am wondering if that is the only matter that brings you here. I am not making a judgement call but am just inquisitive. |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the French whose policies have destroyed every colony they have. Who regularly collaspes under union strikes. Who has a policy to sell arms to every two terrorist country. Although I am not fan of US politics, at least the USA did not give weopons to Iraq or technology like France did. French are more protectionist than the Americans and have many underhanded deals.
Vorteks, how many french Colonies ended up in a good way?
British style of government has been the most successful for the longest time. USA is derived form of it. US economy is going down, because it is bureaucratic. |
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Filimon
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr Fauste wrote: | Yes, the French whose policies have destroyed every colony they have. Who regularly collaspes under union strikes. Who has a policy to sell arms to every two terrorist country. Although I am not fan of US politics, at least the USA did not give weopons to Iraq or technology like France did. French are more protectionist than the Americans and have many underhanded deals.
Vorteks, how many french Colonies ended up in a good way?
British style of government has been the most successful for the longest time. USA is derived form of it. US economy is going down, because it is bureaucratic. |
I beg your pardon? I believe it was none other than MR Donald "holier than thou" Rumsfeld, who shook with Saddam Hussein on a deal in 1984, under which USA supplied Iraq with the same chemical weapons that he later used to subdue the kurds' rebellion.
Chack your facts, mate. |
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Intourist
Talk Show Host
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr Fauste wrote: | | USA did not give weopons to Iraq . |
You should check your facts, Fauste. We did indeed supply Iraq with CHEMICAL weapons for use against theKurds and Iran. |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| You are correct. |
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vorteks
VIP
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 571
Location: European Union
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:34 am Post subject: |
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The european decolonisation was a necessity for identity reasons. If France kept its colonies, it would be majoritarily a muslin arab country today. If Great Britain kept its colonies, it would be majoritarily a hindu aryan country. I do agree that the british colonial presence was much more respectful of local populations, but I still can give you a fair amount of countries where the decolonisation went fairly smoothly : Morocco, Tunisia, Senegal, Ivory Coast....
You are right, USA never gave weapons to Iraq, they sold them (as well as to Iran). As for underhanded deals, by definition, they can t be proved, so it s more a negative assumption than a fact. But I do agree the French sinned by technology pride, since there was no need to sell nuclear electricity plants to a country that has the means of its energetic independance.
Import policies in the European Union is not of the competency of countries, but of the Union, so claiming that any of the 25 countries is protectionist is a nonsense. But who would expect americans to understand the E.U when so few europeans themselves do..
At least you have the honesty to agree that the current american foreign policy is colonial, which very few americans will openly admit. |
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bernhard_riemann
Frequent Guest
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| America is not colonizing Iraq. That is incorrect. People in America do not want to move there. Right now they are there to stabilize and then leave. |
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vorteks
VIP
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 571
Location: European Union
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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You are right, Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti... are not colonising Iraq. USA tho does impose a protectorate colonisation to a sovereign country by force, controlling businesses and imposing elites. It isnt meant to impose a citizenship but to influence and control a foreign country s economy and political choices.
And if you believe US forces will totally withdraw over the coming 50 years, you are or irrealistic or naive. As for the supposed "stabilisation", facts contradict your theory (amazing how peace can make more victims than war), with the balkanisation of the country and possible spreading infection to nearby countries. Lebanon is already going back to 1980s like civil war... |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And if you believe US forces will totally withdraw over the coming 50 years, you are or irrealistic or naive. As for the supposed "stabilisation", facts contradict your theory (amazing how peace can make more victims than war), with the balkanisation of the country and possible spreading infection to nearby countries. |
I doubt that. The US wont stay more than 2 years. The US is reappyling policy from Vietnam: create and train inept and corrupt local forces, and political elites, and leave so that the delayed civil war will commence. Before Vietnam, it did this in the Phllippines, and in El Salvador, Cuba, Panama, Honduras, and Nicaragua in the 1920s. The US has never been a good colonial power and it knows this.
Besides the "facts" as you say speak for itself: Occupying Iraq is costing billions per day, streteching the US military beyond its means, and lowering morale in the military to Vietnam standards and that would be unacceptble. Their "experienment" is complete so they have no reason to stay any longer. The US military is going to recharge for the next major war: Israel Vs. Iran.
Lebanese civil war again: likely not, but the tensions will go on like this forever. |
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ekrubmeg
Just Starting
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:42 am Post subject: You have a very biased and inaccurate view of the US |
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| Dr Fauste wrote: | I know in Canada, we think American military men are generally narrow minded idiots who cannot think outside the box. Generally the solutions they come up deal with cost, unimaginitive solutions. There is great dislike for American military in the world, because they generally act like a bunch of children. I know the majority are great people and want to do well, but when pilots packed on uppers blew up and killed Canadian soldiers and never apologised (or it took a couple weeks). Hearing the morons in Iraq blasting Metalllic from a tank while soldiers are in battle. Do you think it is a video game? During the first Gulf War, Americans killed more of its own allies than Iraqis. They have delayed apologies.They are suppose to be discpline soldiers and they act like juveniles. I have spoken with many different military men from around the military. They referred to American soldiers as Ghetto Kids with very expensive high tech toys. If they have a problem, go out and get a more expensive toy. They view them as the Moron Rich Kid with nicest cars and equipment.
Truth is that people outside of USA think less of American soldiers than they think of the average americans. |
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