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60th Anniversary of Russia's WWII Victory Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

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Author	Message
blaked Lounge Lizard Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 180 Location: Moscow	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:27 pm    Post subject: 60th Anniversary of Russia's WWII Victory I just read that GWB will visit Moscow for the 60th anniversary of the defeat of the Germans on May 9th. I think that this is complete and utter bullshit. To congratulate Russia for its defeat of the Germans is to celebrate Stalin as the champion of Soviet tyranny over Russia and Eastern Europe. If Russian freedom was a girl, she wouldn't be old enough to have sex. As a non-Jew, I can safely say that I would have rather lived under a Nazi dictator than under a communist one. I only wish that something akin to the Nuremberg trials would have happened after the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991, and that the spies, thieves and murderers of that regime would have been expunged from the face of the Earth.
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Camrade VIP Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 516 Location: Санкт-Петербург	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: 2blaked And absolutely no respect for people who were figting for your ass to be now in safety?! you're saying an utter bullshit! That's very sad to hear such things from young idiots
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Jutrzenkapolska VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: With the 60th anniversary of the end of the war, I think it's time to talk honestly and openly about it.So here goes. My ass is in safety no thanks to the Red Army.We have very little to be grateful for to the Soviet Union. Someday, the truth will come to light.
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Camrade VIP Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 516 Location: Санкт-Петербург	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:05 pm    Post subject: 2Jutrzenkapolska you're not right... "no thanks to the red army"... if there weren't any red armies, we wouldn't have seated in front of our computers.
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Zach10791 Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2005 Posts: 815	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Thanks to the Red Army, Poland was put threw hell after the war, because the Red Army had to place a Communist goverment in what ever country the liberated. Then the world was introduced to East German and the Eastern Block.... What I' am I saying, my family comes from East Germany, my hometown's sister city was a district of East Germany!
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Camrade VIP Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 516 Location: Санкт-Петербург	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: 2Zach10791 each country has it's own interests, so USSR had some... Such small countries like Poland have to admit interests of their bigger neibhours. But... If Hitler defeated the USSR, it wouldn't have been any Polands at all. And soldiers of the Red Army were fighting for freedom of Poland, for life in the country. They didn't put any governments (it was duty of commanders). So try to make a little respect for people who were dying for your lives... Try to use your brain and imagine: will you fight for freedom of Russia for example if you happen to fight there, will you die for another country, for absolutely unknown people?
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Jutrzenkapolska VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: It's thanks to luck that I'm in sitting in front of my computer in Computer Graphics class right now, typing when I should be working, btw. My family quartered soldiers both German and Russian during and at the end of the war.They weren't very nice guests. Your teachers likely didn't tell you this at school but the Russian Army is guilty of many war crimes in Poland, for example, how they stood aside and let those poor Jews and Poles get crushed by the Nazis in the Warsaw Uprising.They didn't help because it wasn't a communist rebellion. Hell, did you forget how the Red Army came into Poland in the first place?Together with the Nazis. The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were attacking Poland together. Katyn wasn't a German massacre of Poles.Even now, 60 years later, your government refuses to release information about that, so we can finally know what really happened there. Last edited by Jutrzenkapolska on Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mogsfan WayToRussified Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 490	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Quote: Try to use your brain and imagine: will you fight for freedom of Russia for example if you happen to fight there, will you die for another country, for absolutely unknown people? Stalin had millions of Russians executed. So, to say they were fighting for freedom is a ridiculous comment - with all due respect.
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Camrade VIP Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 516 Location: Санкт-Петербург	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Imagine: If you're russian. Imagined? Yeah. And you're given an only grenade. have you imagined??? Perfect! And commander says: "Listen to me guy, can you see this german tank? So take this grenade and destroy it for polish people!" What would you do? So you know, I suppose "You'll retire". And I'm trying to say that soviet soldiers were given a shit on politics. They were told that socialism is good, capitalism is bad. And they were fighting for Poland to make polish people live in a paradise and they didn't want their "slav neibhours" to suffer from tyrany. That was a time that everyone who wasn't brainwashed by american or soviet propaganda couldn't say what's better - socialism or capitalism. So don't say ridicolous things and try to use your brain... Brain is the only thing that helps to distinguish facts from political bullshit! Don't be ignorant person who was told that Stalin is apparently bad and Truman is very good... Be adequate anyway...
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Mogsfan WayToRussified Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 490	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:49 pm    Post subject: Camrade, is that addressed to me? If so, do you serious think that's how it went down? In other words, do you honestly believe that was Russia's philosophy? To save Poland? If so, I think I have a Brooklyn Bridge for sale, for you, cheap. This is how I perceive it, okay?: Russia didn't care squat for Poland, for the U.S. , for even Russia! The rulers of Russia were concerned with two things: Power and breathing room. The Germans invading Poland was an infringement on their room or in other words, in their proximity! Their helping of the U.S. and Poland and/or whoever else was not out of altruism or good natured concern. It was to stop Germany from getting stronger and being able to be more than just a rival but being able to conquer Russia. That's it. It's that simple. I don't claim to know of any special relations Russia and Poland had at the time but inform me if there is some other special arrangement between the two countries which would allow for another reason for Russia to come to Poland's aide other than the one I presented to you. Stalin didn't care squat for Russians. Everything was done for his own power and control. It's the same practically for all dictators. The WW2 "victory" is no different and not a reason to compliment Russia on their assistance to Poland. IMHO, anyway.
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Jutrzenkapolska VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:08 pm    Post subject: Was that addressed to me? Stalin was apparently bad.Do you know that his Siberian labor camps killed more Jews and Poles than Hitler's concentration camps? While we are talking about WWII injustices, how many Americans know that the USA years 1937-1940 denied tens of thousands of visas to refugees from Germany? The poor unfortunate Jews and Germans desperately trying at the last moment to escape Germany were turned down their passports to life. One boat from Germany of about 100,000 mostly Jewish passengers even went all of the way to New York Harbor, only to be held up right at the feet of the Statue of Liberty for a week, given orders not to let anyone debark, then turned away and forced to sail back to Germany.Most of the passengers were killed in the next two years.So add the City of New York andthe government of the United States to the WW2 Wall of Shame. And the USA wasn't the only country to turn away refugees. Thousands of lives could have been saved if neutral European nations had opened their doors.
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Vic Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 298 Location: Moscow, Russian Federation	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Ok, now I am just offended by this. My great-granfather fought and died in the battle for Moscow so that I and all of Russia (and also most civilised countries) can live in freedom. It is rather unfortunate that now we take this freedom for granted (this can be clearly seen by just looking at this post). Most of you have never lived in a 'communist' country but you seem to have a good idea of what it was like - bad, opression, filthy, evil, ect. Thus I (and in my opinion, Comrade) see that you have no idea what you are talking about. This is the brainwashing that you recieve, just from the other side. Please take the time to ask people that actually lived through Soviet years. Ask them what they prefer and ask them if they thought it was bad, opressing and evil. 95% will disagree. There were problems, I agree, but to say that it is WORSE THAN NAZISM? You must be out of your mind! In many aspects it was better than the 'capitalism' that was in the west. So think before you say something outright stupid. Clearly, most of you have a dilluted understanding of Nazism and Communism, please stop reading propaganda and take the time to ask someone that actually lived through it before making disgracefull comments. (Especially Agatha - you are clearly a very intelligent person and I respect you. But please, try to find an objective view of the situation.) Vic
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Jutrzenkapolska VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:05 pm    Post subject: Thank you, Vic And I am trying to find an objective view of the situation. Oh that's very cool, my great-grandfather was a soldier in the Polish Army.He was killed in the September invasion of Poland, leaving behind a wife and four young daughters. Forgive me but I wouldn't have liked to live under either Communism or Nazism (But I have lived under Communism--for about three months in 1989 when I was one year old .I still have my Polish Republic of the People passport somewhere ) Though yeah, comparing the Soviet Union to the Third Reich is unfair.However, did you know that some Russians at first welcomed the Germans because saw the invasion as a liberation from Stalin? Very quickly changed their minds. It annoys me how Russians and Americans both make it seem like they single-handedly saved the world from Hitler and made the world safe from facism for future generations to come. Americans say "They were losing the war until we decided to step in!!!" Russians say "We were fighting, fighting, fighting and dying while you were making toasters!!!" and I say "Please look at the hard facts and stop nationalistic bs-ing". But no one can tell me the Red Army soldiers weren't cruel to the Polish civilians. Another great-grandmother of mine had a platoon of them in her house, mostly dumbass Ruskie farmboys and I'm sorry to say they smashed her icons, sexually harassed her and drank all her vodka. And you all know what happens whenever an all-male army comes into a foreign country. Rape.There were a hell of alot of German babies born in Poland those years and even more Russian.Often the Polish civilians were more afraid of Russians than of Germans. And another thing- I still think it's a little hypocritical to take credit for saving Poland, when in the first years of the war Germans were killing Poles and you were helping them do it. Come on, you can't deny the Pact. That's collaboration. Last edited by Jutrzenkapolska on Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zach10791 Moderator Joined: 19 Mar 2005 Posts: 815	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: I agree with you Agatha. Americans and Russians do believe there armies liberated all of Europe. My ex-friend used to say "We liberated there asses and by not supporting us in Iraq that is how they say thank you?" We didnt do it all alone, we had the help of the British, the French, and the Russians. That is why it was called the Allied forces!
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Vic Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 298 Location: Moscow, Russian Federation	Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:12 pm    Post subject: Jutrzenkapolska wrote: Thank you, Vic And I am trying to find an objective view of the situation. Oh that's very cool, my great-grandfather was a soldier in the Polish Army.He was killed in the September invasion of Poland, leaving behind a wife and four young daughters. Forgive me but I wouldn't have liked to live under either Communism or Nazism (But I have lived under Communism--for about three months in 1989 when I was one year old .I still have my Polish Republic of the People passport somewhere ) Though yeah, comparing the Soviet Union to the Third Reich is unfair.However, did you know that some Russians at first welcomed the Germans because saw the invasion as a liberation from Stalin? Very quickly changed their minds. It annoys me how Russians and Americans both make it seem like they single-handedly saved the world from Hitler and made the world safe from facism for future generations to come. Americans say "They were losing the war until we decided to step in!!!" Russians say "We were fighting, fighting, fighting and dying while you were making toasters!!!" and I say "Please look at the hard facts and stop nationalistic bs-ing". But no one can tell me the Red Army soldiers weren't cruel to the Polish civilians. Another great-grandmother of mine had a platoon of them in her house, mostly dumbass Ruskie farmboys and I'm sorry to say they smashed her icons, sexually harassed her and drank all her vodka. And you all know what happens whenever an all-male army comes into a foreign country. Rape.There were a hell of alot of German babies born in Poland those years and even more Russian.Often the Polish civilians were more afraid of Russians than of Germans. And another thing- I still think it's a little hypocritical to take credit for saving Poland, when in the first years of the war Germans were killing Poles and you were helping them do it. Come on, you can't deny the Pact. That's collaboration. Wow. What profession do you intend to choose? You are correct in pretty much every way (this would be one of the first times I admit this to a girl ), and I do see that you are trying to find an objective view (otherwise this debate would be pretty useless - it would be like talking to a wall ) Well, there was a pact between Stalin and Adolf. They pretty much divided europe (we take poland, you take baltics, we take france, you take finland ect...) That is the problem when you have two superpowers lead by two idiots. The smaller countries get hurt (and occupied) in the end because they cannot stand up for themselves and nobody will stand up for them unless it is in their interests. Hitler knew that eventually Stalin would turn on him and invade territories occupied by the Third Reich, so he broke the NAP (Non-agression pact) and attacked first. Stalin also knew that Hitler would attack sooner or later so he used the NAP to buy time to restructure and reform the army (these reforms finished in 1943, and that is when the Nazi's started the Volgograd - Berlin international marathon ) Nobody is hiding the fact that we had a pact, it is rather unfortunate that we had this pact though, as it did no good for anybody. The rape was bad. This happens anytime that you have alot of men that have not 'gotten down' in a while. Not only Soviets or the Nazi's did this...but just about every country in the war (U.S., GB) only the japaneese didn't because they have the whole honour thing going on (or because they did not talk about it). I really do not envy the Germans after they lost though. My grandfather told me that when the war ended and all the troops were coming home, they had TRUCK loads full of German loot with them! (in exchange for staying at their house, one soldier gave my grandfather a bike - he was 15 at the time, so it was a good present , that same soldier offered one of three piano's that he had with him, but my great-grandmother refused) Ofcourse, the germans deserved this happening to them, but the countries that ended up in the crossfire didn't. Although I am pretty sure that cases of looting were rare in Poland by Russian soldiers. Trust me, it would have been worse if Nazi's would have stayed in Poland, we atleast helped rebuild all the eastern european countries (while parts of our own country were still in ruin). As you probably know, the Third Reich wanted to wipe out all the 'lesser' races such as jews, blacks, slavic peoples and others. The other thing is that Poland has a bad view of Russia because of Stalin, since that is when everything you rescribed happened (deportations, execution, ect). All of this happened not only in Poland, but in the Soviet Union, in the same ammount too. Under Khruschev and Brezhnev there were no opressions other than the warsaw uprising, which happened only because of Stalin's earlier opressions against Poland which caused mistrust against Russia. The whole 'we saved the world' crap really is crap. It was a collective effort, its just that our encounter is more personal (they came in and started killing off civilians) and their forces were greater than ours, but we pushed them back and defeated them. I believe that every country that participated in the war not only has a right to, but MUST take pride in the fact that they fought for freedom and prevailed. That is what people needed after 5 years of harship. Patriotism isn't a bad thing, it is the reason that we won the war after all. You know that expression - History is written by the victors. I realise that you have your view, I am not in any way forcing my views onto you, I just want you to see mine. As I said before, I do not believe that WE won the war all on our own, I do think that we played the largest role in it, but we could not have won against Germany on our own, it would not have been possible, simple as that - Victory was a collective effort, we must take pride in that aswell, that we fought together for this freedom. My time of living 'under communist rule' wasn't much longer than yours , besides, you cannot call the 80's 'communist' because that was when the worthless reforms started. To understand a certain situation fully, you have to be atleast 14 years old. However my parents and their parents lived in that time and have good memories of it, so I am speaking for them By the way, most people have a wrong view of Communism because they were misinformed of due to propaganda. You see, people in the west automatically link Communism to Stalin and have automatic gag reflexes because of it. It would be the same as linking George W. Bush to Capitalism and Democracy...not pretty huh? Even I gag when I read what I just said there. If this were indeed the case, than democracy would not look to pretty, would it? Vic P.S. Agatha, is your name Polish? And out of curiousity - is your backround Polish or is it mixed? (Its just that I know a girl that has your name and we were trying to find out where it came from since it is a pretty rare name...and it sounds pleasant too ) Last edited by Vic on Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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