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Dr-Fauste
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Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: Living in USA |
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| Quote: | Judge tells moms in custody cases to learn English
By NATALIA MIELCZAREK
Staff Writer
A Wilson County child-court judge has been ordering foreign-born women to learn English for the good of their children — an action that some regard as unconstitutional.
In a case this week, Judge Barry Tatum insisted that an 18-year-old Mexican woman take language classes and consider using birth control.
Tatum said his admonition didn't come out of malice or the urge to Americanize an immigrant. Instead, the judge said he worried that the woman's 2-year-old daughter would miss out on opportunities because of her mother's inability to communicate in English.
''A parent has the right to raise a child the way they see fit, but government gets involved at some point,'' Tatum said. ''I'm concerned about the civil rights of the child and what will happen to her.''
The immigrant woman and her American-born toddler both entered the state's custody in 2003.
A complaint was made to state child protection officials, accusing the mother of neglecting her baby by not following up on immunizations and other shots, said K. Danielle Edwards, a spokeswoman with the state Department of Children's Services.
Neither Tatum nor Edwards would identify the woman or her child, saying that identities of people involved in DCS and juvenile court cases are confidential.
Tatum said the written order in the case hadn't been filed yet and he couldn't recall whether his direction that the mother learn English was merely a suggestion or carried the legal weight of an official court order.
But local civil rights attorney Jerry Gonzalez said the latest case sounded ominously similar to another recent order issued by Tatum — a decision that Gonzalez is appealing.
In that case, Gonzalez said, Tatum ordered a Mexican woman in a child neglect case last year to learn basic English within six months. If she didn't comply, the lawyer said, a hearing was to be held to consider terminating the mother's parental rights to her 11-year-old daughter.
''Ordering a woman to learn English or lose her child, that's blatantly unconstitutional,'' Gonzalez said. ''The First Amendment allows all of us to speak whatever language we choose to speak. There's nothing compelling us to speak English, to learn English or be able to write English.''
He declined to present a copy of the order, saying the documents were sealed in juvenile court and that he could be held in contempt if he shared the document.
Judge Tatum said he could not immediately remember the case Gonzalez referred to because of the volume of cases that move through his courtroom. But, he said, he has issued similar English-training orders in three to five other cases.
He said the mother's ability to learn English in this week's case would not directly influence her custody over the toddler.
''There are no repercussions in terms of termination of parental rights,'' Tatum said.
Still, civil libertarians called any ruling that included such a provision unconstitutional and outrageous.
''This is clearly not acceptable, and we're worried that the judge has gone over the line,'' said Hedy Weinberg, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee. ''A judge should not require a parent to learn English to have access to their child, and the government should not be telling parents how to communicate with their children.''
ACLU officials are considering filing a complaint against the judge or seeking to place a monitor in his courtroom, she said. Weinberg wasn't aware of similar cases in other areas, but acknowledged that they may be happening ''under the radar screen.''
Such rulings violate the constitutional requirement for equal protection and equal treatment under the law, she said.
''There's no relationship between being a good parent and speaking English,'' Weinberg said.
Luis Bustillos, a probation officer in Davidson County who also considers himself a Hispanic activist, said he didn't disagree with Tatum's ruling. ''It's not controversial,'' he said. ''As long as they are with their own people, there's no need for them to learn English. When they go work, they need to communicate in English.''
Bustillos said he came to this country in 1964 from Bolivia.
''It was very hard for me when I came here to learn English,'' he said. ''We need to bring the message to the community that if they (learn English), they will improve their status.''
Staff writer Holly Edwards contributed to this report. Reach Natalia Mielczarek at 259-8079 or nmielczarek@tennessean.com. |
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MrSpice
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Cases like this are very rare. Plus, the current european immigration regulations are more strict that the American ones. Also, you don't realize that Mexican immigration is a huge issue in border state. According to recent estimates, 10-12 million illegal mexican immigrants now live in the United States. More than 1 million crossed the border last year (rough estimate). No wonder that many people and some judges are very angry about the situation and that spills into some unfortunate decisions like the one you mention below. I personally don't have anything against Mexican immigrants coming to America for a better life. But it's a serious issue in some cities where some neighborhood are overwhelmed by illigal immigrants that don't speak English, are poor and where it's not safe to walk to night or even during the day. Again, this problem is much more acute in European countries where the anti-immigrant sentiment is much stronger than in the US.
When you don't know the context in which the decisions are made and just fish for negative articles about the USA, it's hard to be objective. You seem to like to disparage America whenever you get a chance. |
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vorteks
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 571
Location: European Union
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding EU and immigration...
We do have an increased issue currently, since maintaining a social democratic system is tougher and tougher in a globalised environment. Australia, Canada and USA have a selective immigration policy, trying to filter to immigration pressure to only let most productives in.
We do need immigration, because of the huge population of baby boomers going to retire over the 20 coming years. This will weight heavily on our public expenditures. But many european countries still have the idealistic "refugee status" policy abused by immigrants. Our borders extend eastwards every 5 years, making them more porous each time. But I think we will follow the other economic zones logics here, since we do need a productive and educated immigration. |
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MrSpice
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| vorteks: What you said about the US is only true regarding the legal immigration, and even then only partially since a lot of people come to America legally simply because they are close relatives of the naturalized US Citizens. There's no requirement in terms of their education, work experience or language skills. The article mentioned above deals with Mexican immigration. Most people from Mexico come to the US illegally crossing the porous border to one of many southern state. Most of these people work on the fields or in other low-paying jobs. On one hand that makes many industries in the US competitive and fills the need. On the other hand, many of these poor people don't learn English well and continue living in poverty while demanding medical and other services. |
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linguist
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:06 am Post subject: |
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This isn't a problem limited to illegal immigrants, or Mexicans living in Southern states. I have Russian aquaintances going through divorce proceedings running into similar situations. In one case the Russian mother is supposed to avoid having her young son come into contact w/ other Russians, or go to the Russian Orthodox Church (The judge thought it was a cult). That judge's ignorance is very disturbing. Unfortunately, he isn't the only xenophobic judge.
I am not arguing that immigrants shouldn't learn English, but they should be able to use whatever language they choose to communicate with their children, and should be permitted access to others who speak that language. Obviously, their social economic status could improve with improved language skills, but it shouldn't be forced on them. |
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DavidC
Frequent Guest
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 39
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:45 am Post subject: Re: Living in USA |
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Very little known fact:
English is NOT the official language of America.
The United States does NOT have an official language.
| Dr Fauste wrote: | | Quote: | Judge tells moms in custody cases to learn English
By NATALIA MIELCZAREK
Staff Writer
A Wilson County child-court judge has been ordering foreign-born women to learn English for the good of their children — an action that some regard as unconstitutional.
In a case this week, Judge Barry Tatum insisted that an 18-year-old Mexican woman take language classes and consider using birth control.
Tatum said his admonition didn't come out of malice or the urge to Americanize an immigrant. Instead, the judge said he worried that the woman's 2-year-old daughter would miss out on opportunities because of her mother's inability to communicate in English.
''A parent has the right to raise a child the way they see fit, but government gets involved at some point,'' Tatum said. ''I'm concerned about the civil rights of the child and what will happen to her.''
The immigrant woman and her American-born toddler both entered the state's custody in 2003.
A complaint was made to state child protection officials, accusing the mother of neglecting her baby by not following up on immunizations and other shots, said K. Danielle Edwards, a spokeswoman with the state Department of Children's Services.
Neither Tatum nor Edwards would identify the woman or her child, saying that identities of people involved in DCS and juvenile court cases are confidential.
Tatum said the written order in the case hadn't been filed yet and he couldn't recall whether his direction that the mother learn English was merely a suggestion or carried the legal weight of an official court order.
But local civil rights attorney Jerry Gonzalez said the latest case sounded ominously similar to another recent order issued by Tatum — a decision that Gonzalez is appealing.
In that case, Gonzalez said, Tatum ordered a Mexican woman in a child neglect case last year to learn basic English within six months. If she didn't comply, the lawyer said, a hearing was to be held to consider terminating the mother's parental rights to her 11-year-old daughter.
''Ordering a woman to learn English or lose her child, that's blatantly unconstitutional,'' Gonzalez said. ''The First Amendment allows all of us to speak whatever language we choose to speak. There's nothing compelling us to speak English, to learn English or be able to write English.''
He declined to present a copy of the order, saying the documents were sealed in juvenile court and that he could be held in contempt if he shared the document.
Judge Tatum said he could not immediately remember the case Gonzalez referred to because of the volume of cases that move through his courtroom. But, he said, he has issued similar English-training orders in three to five other cases.
He said the mother's ability to learn English in this week's case would not directly influence her custody over the toddler.
''There are no repercussions in terms of termination of parental rights,'' Tatum said.
Still, civil libertarians called any ruling that included such a provision unconstitutional and outrageous.
''This is clearly not acceptable, and we're worried that the judge has gone over the line,'' said Hedy Weinberg, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee. ''A judge should not require a parent to learn English to have access to their child, and the government should not be telling parents how to communicate with their children.''
ACLU officials are considering filing a complaint against the judge or seeking to place a monitor in his courtroom, she said. Weinberg wasn't aware of similar cases in other areas, but acknowledged that they may be happening ''under the radar screen.''
Such rulings violate the constitutional requirement for equal protection and equal treatment under the law, she said.
''There's no relationship between being a good parent and speaking English,'' Weinberg said.
Luis Bustillos, a probation officer in Davidson County who also considers himself a Hispanic activist, said he didn't disagree with Tatum's ruling. ''It's not controversial,'' he said. ''As long as they are with their own people, there's no need for them to learn English. When they go work, they need to communicate in English.''
Bustillos said he came to this country in 1964 from Bolivia.
''It was very hard for me when I came here to learn English,'' he said. ''We need to bring the message to the community that if they (learn English), they will improve their status.''
Staff writer Holly Edwards contributed to this report. Reach Natalia Mielczarek at 259-8079 or nmielczarek@tennessean.com. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 4:44 am Post subject: |
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David,
Engish obviouslyis the official language in USA. To suggest otherise would be a big lie and I think you know that. |
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DavidC
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 39
Location: New York
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:13 am Post subject: |
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David,
Are you kidding? No one I repeat NO ONE in the USA does not recognize that English is the American language. Actually English is most legitimate and respected and utlized language in the world. |
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DavidC
Frequent Guest
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 39
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Cindy,
Please take a look at what I wrote:
| DavidC wrote: | Very little known fact:
English is NOT the official language of America.
The United States does NOT have an official language. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States
| Quote: | Official language status
The United States does not have an official language; nevertheless, English is the language used for legislation, regulations, executive orders, treaties, federal court rulings, and all other official pronouncements. Many individual states have adopted English as their official language, and three states are officially bilingual: Hawaii (English and Hawaiian), Louisiana (English and French) and New Mexico (English and Spanish). In 2000, the census bureau printed the standard census questionnaires in six languages: English, Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, and Tagalog. The English-Only movement seeks to establish English as the only official language of the entire nation.
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Stating what's the official language and what is the most popular or most utilzed language is not the same thing, is it?
| cyndy22 wrote: | David,
Engish obviouslyis the official language in USA. To suggest otherise would be a big lie and I think you know that. |
| cyndy22 wrote: | David,
Are you kidding? No one I repeat NO ONE in the USA does not recognize that English is the American language. Actually English is most legitimate and respected and utlized language in the world. |
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DavidC
Frequent Guest
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 39
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| DavidC wrote: | Cindy,
Please take a look at what I wrote:
| DavidC wrote: | Very little known fact:
English is NOT the official language of America.
The United States does NOT have an official language. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States
| Quote: | Official language status
The United States does not have an official language; nevertheless, English is the language used for legislation, regulations, executive orders, treaties, federal court rulings, and all other official pronouncements. Many individual states have adopted English as their official language, and three states are officially bilingual: Hawaii (English and Hawaiian), Louisiana (English and French) and New Mexico (English and Spanish). In 2000, the census bureau printed the standard census questionnaires in six languages: English, Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, and Tagalog. The English-Only movement seeks to establish English as the only official language of the entire nation.
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Stating what's the official language and what is the most popular or most utilzed language is not the same thing, is it?
| cyndy22 wrote: | David,
Engish obviouslyis the official language in USA. To suggest otherise would be a big lie and I think you know that. |
| cyndy22 wrote: | David,
Are you kidding? No one I repeat NO ONE in the USA does not recognize that English is the American language. Actually English is most legitimate and respected and utlized language in the world. |
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I might be wrong but if I remember a conversation with my friend Bill, a well-known linguistic professor at UC Berkeley, Mandarin is the most utilized or spoken language in the world. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| but in the so called global world society, English is the rule. |
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sputnik
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| According to a table in a rather old (1987, cold war times) atlas i have, English is only the 4th language in the world, after Mandarin, Hindi and Spanish.... |
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linguist
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, Mandarin is the most used language in the world, but let's get back to the US. There are only a few states which use another language in addition to English for official business.
In my son's school 1/3-1/2 of the student population is Hmong. School papers come home in English and Hmong, but if I Hmong parent were to call the school and try to speak with most of the administrators or teachers, they would have to use an interpreter or speak English. My point being that though there are many languages spoken in the U.S., and in some areas, especially in big cities, you can get along fairly well without English on a daily basis, the moment you need government services, you will need to use English. |
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vorteks
VIP
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 571
Location: European Union
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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But the uniformisation machine is very powerful. Check Louisiana, except for some few tourist restaurants, the cajun culture almost completly vashined. Children hardly speak cajun any more, only grand parents do. Why so? Simply because english is the working language, if you don t master it you ll get marginalised.
Now to go back to my favorite topic, the dominating language in America IS Castellan (spanish), since a huge majority of americans, be they from north central or south America, use it daily for communicating. Some people predict, based on fertility rates, that this will be the dominating language in the USA as well by the mid of the century...which after all would reflect the americanisation of US citizens, WASPs influence getting marginal.
Last edited by vorteks on Tue May 10, 2005 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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