Way to Russia Talk Lounge

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:55 am Post subject: Russian Immigration and Religion

I live in western Massachusetts and in my surrounding community there is a fairly large Russian, Ukrainian and former Societ country population of immigrants. I was told by the social service agency that helps immigrants here that the Russians, Ukrainainans and other FSR people who come to US are classified as refugees. This mean
s that those people who are able to immigrate here are able because of either religious or political persecution. From what I have observed, these new immigrants indeed are very religious. I would say they are devout Baptists and Pentecostal. I am curious what the present tolerance is in Russia , Ukraine and other FSR countries for people who are devout Baptists, Pentecostal, Jewish etc.

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

Hasn't this been already discussed before in "the Karol Wojtya is no more" thread : http://www.waytorussia.net/TalkLounge/viewtopic.php?t=2559
and lightly talked about in the interracial dating thread:
http://www.waytorussia.net/TalkLounge/viewtopic.php?t=2638
and probably here and there in posts scattered all over the place? From what i've read of them it doesn't seem too bad. Political refugees? Probably (as in Chechens, Ossetians, Ingush, Tatar, etc) Religious refugees? Probably not.

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Intourist · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:48 am Post subject:

Cyndy,

I used to work in a refugee resettlement program (although down in Baltimore). Yes, most of the "immigrants" from the FSU are indeed classified as "refugees". Even when I was assisting in resettlement in 94, I felt it somewhat of an anachronism. They were classified as refugees by the UN office that deals with that.

The majority, in fact, were NOT Protestant, but Jewish. This classification still exists today, although (with the exception of morons like Renwan) I've witnessed no persecution or discrimination perse since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Why the UN has failed to remove this classification for Soviet Jews is beyond me.

There were also refugee statuses for Russian Lutherans (???), Armenians, Azerbaijanis, and Moldovans. I believe Chechens have since been added as well.

Keoki · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 9:23 am Post subject:

During my stint at the US Embassy in Moscow, I spent a couple years in Immigration processing these FSU refugees. Most of the ones that came through at that time (2002-2004) were Baptists and Pentecostals from Ukraine. They were questioned thoroughly regarding their religion at the interview in an attempt to weed out the phonies, so the ones that passed were indeed knowledgeable about their religion.

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject:

I have met some of these immigrants. It seems that they indeed must have felt an intolerance in their country to their religion to choose to leave their country. They are extremely dedicated to their religion.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

Cyndy: Most immigrants that came to the US in the 90s were indeed Jewish (many of them, just partially Jewish). The classification of refugees is not a UN classification, but the one US Congress assigned to Russian Jews in Soviet times. When the Soviet Union was in place before 1989 or so, the borders were closed. Not only Jews but all other people could not leave the country. The religion was pretty much banned and was not officially permitted and recognized. The movement to give this refugee status to Soviet Jews started with people like Natan Sharansky who were put in jail for wanting to immigrate from Soviet Union and raised awareness about this issue in Congress. Come people would say that ther was not much discrimination in Russia. I would say that to understand that issue you have to be Jewish to fully understand what it felt like in the old times. Some high-profile universities were pretty much closed to Jews. And in many places, certain professions were closed to Jews as well. My mother looks very Russian - blonde, thin, sort of very European looking. When she was looking for a job as a teacher, some director would agree to hire here, but as soon as he/she saw my mother's passport where ethnicity is noted prominently, she would be told that they cannot hire her. However, this kind of discrimination was not seen or felt by everybody. So, objectively, you cannot justify a real "refugee" status for so many people. As far as religios persecution of Jews in Russia, there was little because very few Russian Jews were and are religious. Many people who came here and got refugee status are only partially Jewish or not at all (have some Jewish close relatives, spouses, etc.). Congress set a limit of 50K per year for refugees from the former Soviet Union. Obviously, most people came here not because of persecution - they just came for better life and the refugee status came in handy. Interestingly, many people because more religious in America after they arrived here, while in Russia very few people celebrated religious holidays. It's different now, of course.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

By the way, everyone should read this book by Natan Sharansky: "The Case for Democracy". After GW Bush declared recently that this was his favorite book, the book has been villified by many liberals, even though very few of these people actually read it. But I just read it myself and can tell you that the book is just brilliant.

Here is a link to it on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586482610/qid=1115908115/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-7939530-7420059

This book answers some of the questions Cyndy asked in this post, but it also has so much more for anyone interested in foreign affairs and politics.

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the book suggestion. I am going to try to get it from the library. I know that in the 90's there was a big immigration in US of Russian Jews as you said. There has in the past few years also been a big influx of Baptists and Penecostal practing Russians. I am told that they are still immigrating here in western Massachusetts. I think there has been cutbacks however in refugee assisatance programs so services are not what they were. Lutheran Social Services was forced to a bare bones budget over the last couple of years. Aftermath of 911.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

I would guess that the main reason why these people are coming to the US today is not discrimination, but economic problems and desire to persue "The American Dream". Even though there's some indication that Russia is moving backwards in terms of political reforms and democracy, I don't think religious persecution based on any Christina religion is a problem in Russia today. So these people are simply using those long established programs so they can immigrate to America. More power to them...

cyndy22 · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 2:28 am Post subject:

That's my guess too. Even so called devoutly religious people of course have economioc concerns and want better lives for themselves and especially their children. Most of the famuilies that have come here have anywhere from 4 to 8 children. Average. These families assimilate well as far as I can tell. Though I am no expert.