| Should Chechnya: |
| Remain part of the Federation? |
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58% |
[ 18 ] |
| Become Independent? |
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41% |
[ 13 ] |
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| Total Votes : 31 |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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 Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:04 am Post subject: |
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Oil is certainly a part of the Caucasian struggle (ever hear of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which is why large numbers of US troops are in Georgia?), but to say it is not a cultural struggle is a little ridiculous. Basayev isn't fighting a cultural war? I believe he and the Wahabists are doing just that, including their attempts to pull Dagestan and Ingushetia into it, and apparently North Ossetia.
Hell, Basayev started the second Chechen war at the urging of Ibn ul-Khattab who managed to convince him that the Dagestanis and Ingush would welcome him as a liberator! They did, alright, but it was with buckshot not flowers and kisses. Hmm, sounds a bit like Iraq, doesn't it? 
I wasn't aware that the struggle had moved northward for the most part, but I guess this is good. It seems the Russian forces have a better handle on the neighboring republics. To that effect, the terrorists haven't released much new stuff and the bulk of the video I have is from '01 and '02. The latest video I have is from April 2005 and it's nothing more than filming an IED explosion and separatists shooting at civilian cars on the highway. They sure love their GP-30 grenade launchers!  Someone needs to send these guys to film school, though. Of all "terrorist cameramen" the Chechens are the worst. They seem to love filming the ground, or putting their hand over the lens at most inopportune times.
But I digress....prepare to flame, (WAIT FOR IT!), FLAME! |
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sputnik
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:32 am Post subject: |
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The strategic importance of the region to Russia is obvious. Russia is in a conflict with Turkey for years already because of the same issue: oil transports. In this case through the Bosporus.
The Balkans are a mountainous region with a similar strategic importance in the past to the Ottomans, the Austrian empire.. These places have mostly always been a mess...
Croatia was a tourist trap already in communist times. It just got quiet and the whole summer's population of Italians came back again. Don't be too ecstatic about it though: i also heard the stories about the mine fields of a Bosnian friend after he came back from a holiday in his old home village. |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If this is a colonial logic, then why accepting Bielorussian and Ukraine independance while refusing it to Chechnians, that have far less in common with russians... |
Thats simple: Belarus, Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia, Moldova were indepedent countries after the breakup of the Russian Imperial empire in 1918 only for them to be gobbled up by the Bolshevist expansion in the 1920s. Makes sense enough for them to be given back their independence.
Cechnya however was never indepedent.
| Quote: | | The Balkans are a mountainous region with a similar strategic importance in the past to the Ottomans, the Austrian empire.. These places have mostly always been a mess... |
I say you should blame the Austrians, Ottomans, Russia etc for the mess that these places are in now. Just like what the Europeans did in Africa and Asia, they marched into these places with greedy intentions and either made up or played up ethnic tensions just to divide and conquer, foreced them all to play nice and then leave without trying to patch up problems they cause.  |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| Totally off topic: Comrade, how is it that you speak Arabic? |
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mediashark
Moderator
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1599
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renwan
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:56 am Post subject: |
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hello got no time,sorry for this long absence...
anyway my thought is that the only terrorists in chechenya is "us",the "russian" army.
Not having been independent before doesnt make them elss of a state, was Éire(ireland) independent before? NO. does that make the Republic of Éire and the Poblacht na hÉireann less than the brits?
A country shall be defined by the piece of land inhabitated by people who are united by blood,language.culture and traditions. and chechenya has none with russia.
Hey i didn't choose to break the USSR, the USSR is the only country in Russian/Soviet history,that could keep a big union with different ethnics a good palce to live with no racial hatred.
Welcome to Democracy, busienss and fucking russian fourth reich!
btw ther eis some books you people should reaD: Casino Moscow, and Godfather of the Kremlin: The Decline of Russia in the age of Gansgter Capitalism.
cheers |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Kinda irrevelant: did anyone see the interview on the BBC with Vanessa Redgrave about a year ago in which she states that Beslan was not an act of terrorism? Now, Ms.Redgrave is an extremely gifted actress, she has a right to voice her views and I'm all for Chechen independence but come on. |
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renwan
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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I say, let them choose...that is why referendums exist.
the RF is doomed to fail, its based on utter nonsense and nationalism..i give it 15 more years MAXIMUM. by 2020 ther eis gona be no more RF. |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Just like the Soviet Union was destined/doomed to fail? |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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The last I checked, school children and their parents are not military targets with the ability to defend themselves.  I don't even know the actress you speak of, but I'm going to go ahead and place her in the "Stupid Bitch" category. She should go vacation in Dagestan and hang out with all her "buddies" from Ichkeria.
The attack on the USS Cole wasn't a terrorist attack. Some of the attacks in Dagestan aren't terror attacks. A terror attack is conducted against civilian targets with no way to defend themselves - military attacks are not terror attacks. But that is an outrageous statement to make. 350 school children don't control Russia's foreign policy. |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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You don't know the Vanessa Redgrave? Shes one of the world's most promininent actresses from one of the most prominent acting families in Britain, the Redgraves. You of all people should know her Casey; shes an active member of Britain's Workers Revolutionary Party and has donated her money to Marxist and anti-war causes the world over for years. She was the first celebrity to visit Cuba in 1962 and met both Castro and Guevara. She refused knighthood because she said it was a sign of bourgeoisie imperialism.
I can see why she said what she said about Chechnya. She's ardently for Chechen independence and has supported Chechen rebels by donating money to their cause. In fact in 2002, Redgrave paid £50,000 bail for Akhmed Zakayev and got him political asylum in Britain. The Russian government was and is still is hopping mad about this and I believe Redgrave is a wanted fugitive now in Russia. Not that she'll be going there anytime soon anyway.
Heres a pic of her and Zakayev. Does she look famliliar to you now?
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Appeared on "BBC News 24" Breakfast and stated that the massacre of Russian school children by Chechan rebels was not an act of terrorism. (4 September 2004). |
What did she claim it was then?!? I think rich actresses and actors should just keep their mouths shut. |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
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If terrorism is an act of violence to draw attention to a cause and force a government's hand in passing legislation favorable to you, then Beslan sure as f**k was terrorism. 
Rich actors are concerned citizens, too and freedom of speech applies to them the same as to me and you.And freedom of speech includes the right to say insane bullcrap.Paul Newman and Barbra Streisand have the right to be liberal, Clint Eastwood and Bruce Willis have the right to be conservative and Kelsey Grammar, Drew Carey and Kurt Russell have the right to be libertarian and all are allowed to be open and vocal about their views.And we have the right to express our views and say Vanessa Redgrave is a crazy self-righteous bitch.For her own sake, I hope she never runs into a Russian that watches the BBC  .
Great pic E.What's the poster she's holding?  |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:40 am Post subject: |
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I'm with Polksa wholeheartedly. Actors are voting citizens too, and they have the right to be involved and get involved as you and I. Celebrities have lots of clout and lots of money in our society and thats extremeley helpful in getting support towards to important causes like what Vanessa Redgrave is doing for Chechnya.
Apparently she isn't the only one either rooting for Chechnya; after filming that movie, Beyond Borders which one scene was based off of Chechnya, Angelina Jolie has now jumped in the fray and is begining to voice support for the rebels.
I have no idea what that poster means or why they posed in front of it. There wasn't a caption under that photo.  Does anyone else know? |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely.Poverty in Africa, for example, wouldn't be such a big issue today if it was left up to only politicians. Bono, Brad Pitt and George Clooney have done more than Bush and Blair in raising money and public awareness of the situation in poor African countries. The G8 summit might not even have gotten as much attention if wasn't for that celebrity video campaign and fundraising concert.Speaking of which, I can't wait until Vanessa Redgrave goes on the British television to say the London attacks weren't terrorism.  |
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