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Chechnya Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Way to Russia Talk Lounge Forum Index -> Polls

Should Chechnya: Remain part of the Federation?  58%  [ 18 ] Become Independent?  41%  [ 13 ] Total Votes : 31
Author	Message
renwan Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 204	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:48 am    Post subject: I do have studied the IRA,indeed being a general in Soviet Times we were some tiems aproached by IRA man asking for weaponry,if we gave them or not that was our business. So don't try to teach me about stuff I already Know. And Robert McCarney's murder stills open, no one has prooved anything so take your Organe bigotry of accusing the IRA somehwere else, it is the same Orange bigotry that of those who accuse th IRA of robbering the NI Bank... And no Mss.MI5, Hezbollah and the IRA have no political ties, and if they had them,what? Hezbollah is a legitimate political party that has the support of msot the Lebanese population,furthermore there is no actual base to proove the IRA has links with Hezbollah...
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Xela VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject: You know little about Orange County men, Orange bigotry, the IRA, Catholics and Protestants and the situation! Very little! Firstly, my comment was aimed at Casey, not you, and I hope that if you can't at least see the difference you can at least appreciate your need to learn some English. Secondly, being approached by an IRA to provide some weaponry doesn't automatically make you an authority on the intricacies of this plight. If it did, Generals would be the politicians of this world, and to which, I am thankful they are not. When you talk of Robert McCartney and the NI robbery, you show so much ineptitude, one finds it difficult to comprehend, let alone answer. I can only let time be the rectifier of your views; either that or a lesson in Sinn Fein. However, there is plenty to base the fact that the IRA and Hezbollah have connections, not least of all the fact that both sides have admitted it. Had you done more research, you would have known that the British support the PLO, and whilst do not condone some of Hezbollah's actions, are sympathetic to their cause; irrespective of their connections with the IRA. It makes little difference to us, but when people start saying the IRA are somehow more humane than them, I will be quick to remind them they are cut from the same cloth. Incidentally, I am sympathetic to the cause of Catholics and a free Ireland, believe it or not, so please tell me; where exactly would you like me to place my Orange bigotry?
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e VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Can you two create a thread about the IRA, or have this spilt off into the not relevant section so you can continue flaming each other there? This is about Chechnya . Not about The Troubles. Back on topic to more relevant issues, apparently Putin rather informally, has already targeted Vanessa Redgrave: http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/01/04/vredg.shtml Quote: The marchers have taken part in at least six demonstrations, including the picket near Redgrave’s home in Chiswick two weeks ago and a meeting in Trafalgar Square in October. Redgrave said this weekend that she believed the demonstration and an attempt the night afterwards to smash the door to her block of flats may have been connected, Times reported. Redgrave has sought advice on personal protection from anti-terrorist police and has asked for closed-circuit television to be installed. I'm trying to find that interview where she made those comments about Beslan. Anyone know where that could be found? Angelina Jolie is now on board in terms of supporting Chechens --and criticising Russia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3178455.stm
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Xela VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: e I find the way you regularly interrupt discussions highly worthless to say the least, especially in light of the fact you were happy to wholeheartedly partake in it earlier. Nevertheless, Mr Zakayev is in Britain because the British want him here, so Russia is going to have to do a lot better than arranging a bleak demonstration that England simply laughed at. I do believe the Beslan comments made by Mrs Redgrave were somewhat misconstrued; however please don't fool yourself into thinking she is any sort of target over here. There will surely be some emerging if she ever was, though. Good to see Miss Jolie visiting Southern Russia..
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e VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Quote: I find the way you regularly interrupt discussions highly worthless to say the least, especially in light of the fact you were happy to wholeheartedly partake in it earlier. Speak for yourself. And speaking of which, what does that have to do with the fact that you are partaking in a lengthy discussion and argument with someone about the IRA in a Chechnya thread in an Russian chat board? Quote: Nevertheless, Mr Zakayev is in Britain because the British want him here, so Russia is going to have to do a lot better than arranging a bleak demonstration that England simply laughed at. I dont think Britain "wanted" Zakayev. After all, he was arrested upon arrival. Redgrave's money and clout got him out and asylum. Britain would've returned him to Russia long ago if it weren't violating EU and British law.
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Xela VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: Do you not understand how International politics work? Zakayev only got arrested because of a Kremlin issued global warrant, and would have certainly recieved bail from somebody else or an organization had it not been Mrs Redgrave. You claim Britain didn't want Zakayev over here? Well they chose him over Vladimir Putin, because he was the one who cancelled his visit because of the ruling. Furthermore, a London judge threw out the extradition case against Boris Berezovsky, proving Britain even want Zakayev to continue recieving funding. Quote: Britain would've returned him to Russia long ago if it weren't violating EU and British law. It's interesting, I have never personally heard a single British person ever once complain about the fact that Zakayev is over here, although I have heard many Britons complain about the fact that Russia is in Chechnya. In your own words; you do the math.
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Xela VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:55 pm    Post subject: ps e, Quote: Speak for yourself. And speaking of which, what does that have to do with the fact that you are partaking in a lengthy discussion and argument with someone about the IRA in a Chechnya thread in an Russian chat board? Please stop talking to me.
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e VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:24 pm    Post subject: Quote: You claim Britain didn't want Zakayev over here? Well they chose him over Vladimir Putin, because he was the one who cancelled his visit because of the ruling. Furthermore, a London judge threw out the extradition case against Boris Berezovsky, proving Britain even want Zakayev to continue recieving funding Heres your math: extraditing Zakayev and Bresovsky would violate the European Convention on Human Rights not to mention UK immigration law that states that extradition is illegal if said punishment back in the home country is politically motivated. Putin cancels his visit in protest. I dont see Britain shuning Russian officials as you say. Particulary if the Foreign office describes relations as "warm, friendly, and cordial". So out of legal constraints and not for humanitarian reasons as you'd like to believe, is why Zakayev and Bresovsky are in the UK. No laws or if this were 30 years ago, or another country --say the United States, and they've already would've sent them back. Period. And regarding all of this, ironically that despite harboring Zakayev and Bresovsky, your government refuses to officially recognize Chechen independence or elections and tacitly supports Russias efforts there. Enough said. Quote: Please stop talking to me. No. Not that you wont do so anyway either towards me. Stop posting on this forum. It seems that you have no reason to be here other than to argue and flame people that disagree with you with topics that little to do with the subject matter of this website. And I will ask the Mods to remove the IRA posts from this thread since you cant seem to impose self-control.
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Xela VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: If Zakayev is truly condemned as Russia claims he is then it wouldn't have been coming under the European Convention on Human Rights or any UK immigration laws, and we both know Russia tried so. Nevertheless, if you want to keep hold of your beliefs(and I know you like to) ask yourself why you have to say that if it were any other country's laws he would have been extradited? There is a reason. I don't recall ever saying Britain shuns Russian officials.. because in actuality Britain doesn't shun any country's officials; poor argument. Quote: your government refuses to officially recognize Chechen independence or elections and tacitly supports Russias efforts there. Enough said. Yes it is when you are talking nonsense. However it's still important to say that if the government know something else, and are just telling us to be concerned about Russian involvence in Chechnya, Ukraine, elsewhere, and are keeping this support for Chechnya from us, then you know something I don't, and I think you should seriously consider outsourcing for MI6.
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Xela VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:12 pm    Post subject: ps e, Quote: No. Not that you wont do so anyway either towards me. Stop posting on this forum. It seems that you have no reason to be here other than to argue and flame people that disagree with you with topics that little to do with the subject matter of this website. And I will ask the Mods to remove the IRA posts from this thread since you cant seem to impose self-control. Counting to ten works.
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e VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654	Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject: Quote: If Zakayev is truly condemned as Russia claims he is then it wouldn't have been coming under the European Convention on Human Rights or any UK immigration laws, and we both know Russia tried so. He may have thought so too. But surprise! He was arrested on arrival and his only hope was the money and clout of rich celebrities and activists who also got him his trial in which he was granted asylum under the law. Quote: Nevertheless, if you want to keep hold of your beliefs(and I know you like to) ask yourself why you have to say that if it were any other country's laws he would have been extradited? There is a reason. Ask yourself that same question. I bet Zakayev and Bresovsky did too when they chose to go to the UK instead of, say, the US or South Africa. Remember too that he was also arrested when he tried Denmark. Quote: I don't recall ever saying Britain shuns Russian officials.. because in actuality Britain doesn't shun any country's officials; poor argument Really: Quote: You claim Britain didn't want Zakayev over here? Well they chose him over Vladimir Putin, Quote: However it's still important to say that if the government know something else, and are just telling us to be concerned about Russian involvence in Chechnya, Ukraine, elsewhere, and are keeping this support for Chechnya from us, then you know something I don't, and I think you should seriously consider outsourcing for MI6. Now whats nonsense: continously believing in a government that rather hypocritically tells you to/or expresses "concern" for Chechnya but then fails do the first step by recognizing indepedence or even at least elections in Chechnya, not to mention praising Putin: "It's also important that we support Russia in her action against terrorism"? The irony here: Britain has had no qualms about recognizing and supporting, and even funding Palestinian independence and the PLO. Now why can't it do this for Chechnya? Angering Russia? Well now, I don't think Britain was too concerned about stepping on Israel's toes now were they? You "logic" nonwithstanding, me thinks that you were rejected by the FCO/MI6 and now you're on a FSU chat board taking out your frustrations by intentionally trolling people. The only posts you've done thus far since we started seeing you here. Quote: Counting to ten works. Let me know when you are finished counting.
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Xela VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai	Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:05 am    Post subject: Quote: Quote: If Zakayev is truly condemned as Russia claims he is then it wouldn't have been coming under the European Convention on Human Rights or any UK immigration laws, and we both know Russia tried so. He may have thought so too. But surprise! He was arrested on arrival and his only hope was the money and clout of rich celebrities and activists who also got him his trial in which he was granted asylum under the law. Again, why do we have these laws? Why do we have these activists and rich celebrities? Please wake me when you have figured it out. Quote: Now whats nonsense: continously believing in a government that rather hypocritically tells you to/or expresses "concern" for Chechnya but then fails do the first step by recognizing indepedence or even at least elections in Chechnya, not to mention praising Putin: "It's also important that we support Russia in her action against terrorism"? The irony here: Britain has had no qualms about recognizing and supporting, and even funding Palestinian independence and the PLO. Now why can't it do this for Chechnya? Angering Russia? Well now, I don't think Britain was too concerned about stepping on Israel's toes now were they? Firstly, the fact that Britain supports Russia against terrorism DOESN'T have anything to do with Chechnya. They are two different conflicts in British eyes and even Jack Straw has stressed that Russia must differentiate between the two. Secondly, if Putin's claims are to be believed, then it was all carried out by FOREIGN terrorists, thereby confirming it has nothing to do with the war in Chechnya anyhow..(?) Thirdly, the only thing Britain worries about Russia is the nukes, which we have, so don't worry too much about that. After what happened in Ukraine, Caucasus, Central Asia etc. I don't think people are fearing the might of the Russian military anymore, and if you think Britain needs Russia in any way, shape or form, you are thinking of the wrong country. Britain doesn't pay a PENNY to Russia to help fight the Chechens, but hundreds of thousands are flying out each year to help the Chechens. You know which previous comment is applicable here. Fourthly, if Putin cancelled his visit, and Britain was aware he was not happy but didn't care, then that speaks volumes about the real relationship over formal diplomatic talk. Finally, and most importantly, you should hear what the UK and the EU REALLY say about the Russian government, before making these points. Quote: You "logic" nonwithstanding, me thinks that you were rejected by the FCO/MI6 and now you're on a FSU chat board taking out your frustrations by intentionally trolling people. The only posts you've done thus far since we started seeing you here. I'm too young to be rejected by MI6, nevertheless it would be MI5 that would be more applicable to me. Still, I really don't want to have these as my only posts. You are talking about Britain, and I'm only saying what anyone else would say. I genuinely want to post elsewhere, but your up to the minute responses mean I don't really have much choice, Mr Fauste
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e VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654	Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:12 am    Post subject: Quote: Firstly, the fact that Britain supports Russia against terrorism DOESN'T have anything to do with Chechnya. They are two different conflicts in British eyes and even Jack Straw has stressed that Russia must differentiate between the two. But if Putin and the Russian government labels all Chechens --or better yet all Caucasians as terrorists, then......... Quote: Secondly, if Putin's claims are to be believed, then it was all carried out by FOREIGN terrorists, thereby confirming it has nothing to do with the war in Chechnya anyhow..(?) They may have found foreign fighters bodies, and they may have foreign connections, but those attacks are 100% Chechen planned and executed. No doubt Quote: Britain doesn't pay a PENNY to Russia to help fight the Chechens, but hundreds of thousands are flying out each year to help the Chechens. You know which previous comment is applicable here. You misunderstood me. I was pointing out the hypocrasy of the British government: by aiding and funding and recognising the Palestinian Authority and before that the PLO, and recognizing Palestinian elections and independence, while doing neither for Chechnya. But somehow, the UK can harbor Chechen leadership and condemm it. Quote: Finally, and most importantly, you should hear what the UK and the EU REALLY say about the Russian government, before making these points. Words mean nothing. Action does. If the UK and the EU acted in the way they acted for Palestine and Kosovo, there would be a Chechen state by now or at least something close to it. If, as you say, people dont fear Russias military might anymore, particulary its nuclear weapons capability, why should they care or why are they afraid to demand that Russia let Cechnya go in the way they demaned Serbia do so for the rest of the Balkans? Or East Timor to Indonesia? The EU and the UK certainly dont care or mind about what Israel thinks when they earmark millions in aid to the Palestinian Authority each year. Quote: Still, I really don't want to have these as my only posts. You are talking about Britain, and I'm only saying what anyone else would say. I genuinely want to post elsewhere, but your up to the minute responses mean I don't really have much choice, Mr Fauste Replying to posts doesn't stop me and everyone else in here from making multiple posts elsewhere. You're more than welcome to. Are you new to this? We aren't talking about Britain but Chechnya and moreso British celebrities and their support for it. You live in Britain so it makes sense that thing would lean this way. You seem pretty passionate about it too.
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Jutrzenkapolska VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534	Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:19 am    Post subject: Please Russian government, please give the nation of Chechnya that you've been oppressing for so long their rightful independence: you'll stop the terrorism that claims so many lives of your people's lives, you'll save countless Chechen lives as well, improve the lives of thousands, finally shut that...old shit-filled cunt Vanessa Redgrave the fuck up, free Angelina Jolie for the third world countries in Africa, the Middle East and the Americas, possibly inspire the English to mind the separatist movement in their own country and best of all, spare us these idiotic flaming wars between E and Xela, or for that matter anyone who dares to have another opinion.
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renwan Talk Show Host Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 204	Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:29 am    Post subject: instead of posting that here Polska,email putin. It's more useful.
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