| Should Chechnya: |
| Remain part of the Federation? |
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58% |
[ 18 ] |
| Become Independent? |
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41% |
[ 13 ] |
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| Total Votes : 31 |
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Xela
VIP
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 781
Location: Shanghai
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 Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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e,
if you still have not got the message; I honestly can't afford to spend every other hour dissecting posts together with you.
Try thinking for yourself for a change. You are not Russian in any way, yet you are the always embarrassingly the quickest to defend the country. You have not a single family member who has been affected by the Caucasus conflict, yet you seem to speak as if you have all the cause in the world. I've already said Chechnya cannot be rationalized, and have been going against my better judgement to continue this dicussion with you, but at least appreciate that you don't know even a fraction about Britain like I do, and your only real knowledge of the Caucasus is either third hand or text book.
Jutrzenkapolska,
It saddens me to hear you speak like that, especially when you call Vanessa Redgrave a cunt. Such words are very unlady like and makes me wonder what she ever did to you personally?
Nevertheless, the English do mind the seperatist movement in their own country(very successfully), but when they are handing out millions of pounds to Russians(from every corner of the nation) who are claiming asylum over the despicable way they are treated over there, England has every right to at least want to know what is going on, and have an opinion.
How many people from the UK(of the Irish struggle or not) end up in Russia, get housed, clothed, councilled AND recieve free money at the end of each week?
Why you feel the need to join everybody else to gang up against me is something I doubt I will ever understand. |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | if you still have not got the message; I honestly can't afford to spend every other hour dissecting posts together with you. |
The same can be said for you. But then looking at your posts (particulary the ones you write towards Casey) show that in your lack of social skills, you can't seem to do one thing: agreeing to disagree.
| Quote: | | Try thinking for yourself for a change. You are not Russian in any way, yet you are the always embarrassingly the quickest to defend the country. You have not a single family member who has been affected by the Caucasus conflict, yet you seem to speak as if you have all the cause in the world. I've already said Chechnya cannot be rationalized, and have been going against my better judgement to continue this dicussion with you, but at least appreciate that you don't know even a fraction about Britain like I do, and your only real knowledge of the Caucasus is either third hand or text book. |
The same can be said for yourself.
And thanks for rather stupidly presuming that I know nothing about Britain or just how close I am to Chechnya based on the few posts i've done towards you about another topic and the fact that we don't personally know each other at all. But then again, you are you Xela --like calling Polska "unladylike"  for freely expressing her opinions.
| Quote: | | Why you feel the need to join everybody else to gang up against me is something I doubt I will ever understand. |
Read your rather rude replies to all who disargee with you which constitute 100% of your posts --particulary towards Polksa and Casey, and you'll see why. Also see above what I meant by "agree to disagree" note I wrote above. That also explains why us four are the only ones in this enitre forum who even bother to respond to your posts.
I can't see why this flew over your head in the first place or why you're on a Russian travel forum when you've never posted anywhere else regarding that subject, and have proven neither helpful, informative, or even cordial and friendly.
Polska: Wasn't flaming him and was just trying to talk Chechnya him; hadn't said one insulting thing to him until he decided to do so because it seems to be the only intelligent thing he is capable of doing. He just can't seem to have a proper discussion. 
And I agree with you wholehartedly.
And like Rewan, we should be email this stuff to our world leaders or better yet Vanessa Redgrave. |
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Xela
VIP
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 781
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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<deleted>
ps
2 all,
I never once said anything rude to Jutrzenkapolska.. to make the point please take another look at all of my 23 posts and you will find an altogether different picture. I am genuinely saddened as to why she said what she said, and seeing as it was a personal comment I hope you can allow me to express my feelings in peace. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| You're such a troll, Xela. This thread was actually pretty decent until you came along. I think it's time for this this thread to be LOCKED. |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Dont lock it. Just stop feeding the troll. Ignore him. Everyone else does. We wonder why we even bothered with this nutter from the get go.
Should the mods decide to do something about this: move the IRA posts and all else afterward to the not relevant section since they do qualify as flames as per the rules here. |
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Xela
VIP
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 781
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting as to why you have deleted the section that stipulates that e is Nigerian? |
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Xela
VIP
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 781
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Nevertheless, Casey and e,fact remains neither of you are Russian and you do like to gang up together for a good old moan!
LOL!
I will be seeing a lot more of you two.. |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Jutrzenkapolska wrote: | | Please Russian government, please give the nation of Chechnya that you've been oppressing for so long their rightful independence: you'll stop the terrorism that claims so many lives of your people's lives, you'll save countless Chechen lives as well, improve the lives |
Haha. I assume you are being sarcastic, Polska. You know, I was recently thinking about this issue and now I have an opinion. As much as I am cynical about the Russian government, I agree with not giving Chechen independence. It would open up a can of worms and lay ground to a problematic Islamic terrorist state.
As far as Redgrave et al., these rich and famous people who don't have a clue about realities and think they are doing "good," why don't they use their money towards neutral things like giving to the poor and setting up hospitals in poor countries? Instead, they are running around supporting causes and people that they have no clue about. |
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Xela
VIP
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 781
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Mrs Redgrave has donated to charities, hospitals, schools for the disadvantaged, schools for the performing arts even to charities in Russia(which have nothing to do with Chechnya). In fact, it would be hard to provide another example of a famous figure who has donated so much and devoted so much time to genuinely good causes(except Lady Diana-RIP).
This is the nature of the person she is, and I for one would say that to condemn her for one of her beliefs is rather like the dodo teaching the eagle to soar.
Now, what needs to be done in Chechnya is to re-introduce Christianity. Christianity as we know it was born in the Caucasus. Without the Caucasus Christianity would never have developed into Europe, in fact, historically it actually saved Christianity.
Even the patron saint of England(St George) was a Caucasian
http://www.royalsocietyofstgeorge.com/historyofstgeorge.htm
Chechnya should be given at least autonomy; thats what I have always believed. With a more peaceful environment, Christianity can be re-introduced and both religions can live either side, and if the rest of the Caucasus can see success in a place like that; the wars will sooner become a memory. |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:01 am Post subject: |
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I meant, that they should stick to that and only that! Go ahead and read all the different articles on Redgrave. She is truly ignorant of the entire Chechya-Russia matter. Celebrities live in an entirely different world and as such, should not be sticking their noses in issues when they clearly lack the knowledge and sense needed.
You can't force someone to adopt a certain religion unless you brainwash them. Is that what you are suggesting? No, religion doesn't secure peace.
Chechnya is another place ripe for takeover by Islamic forces and in this, extremism. This is too close to Russia's backyard and while I am clearly against violence to solve the situation, they have to take great care and planning to make sure mistakes aren't made. Would autonomy be enough? I doubt it. These are not citizens voting for something; these are terrorists and they are not going to "settle."
| Xela wrote: | Mrs Redgrave has donated to charities, hospitals, schools for the disadvantaged, schools for the performing arts even to charities in Russia(which have nothing to do with Chechnya). In fact, it would be hard to provide another example of a famous figure who has donated so much and devoted so much time to genuinely good causes(except Lady Diana-RIP).
This is the nature of the person she is, and I for one would say that to condemn her for one of her beliefs is rather like the dodo teaching the eagle to soar.
Now, what needs to be done in Chechnya is to re-introduce Christianity. Christianity as we know it was born in the Caucasus. Without the Caucasus Christianity would never have developed into Europe, in fact, historically it actually saved Christianity.
Even the patron saint of England(St George) was a Caucasian
http://www.royalsocietyofstgeorge.com/historyofstgeorge.htm
Chechnya should be given at least autonomy; thats what I have always believed. With a more peaceful environment, Christianity can be re-introduced and both religions can live either side, and if the rest of the Caucasus can see success in a place like that; the wars will sooner become a memory. |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Oh no, that came out completely wrong.  Lemme rephrase myself. Chechnya should get sovernity, as should every nation, region, province, state or territory that wants it.Free Northern Ireland, free the Basque Country, Kurdistan, Scotland, Silesia, Kashubia, New York California  , all of them. There is not one single reason why Chechnya should be part of the RF.
I know it was crude to call Ms.Redgrave a See You Next Tuesday but harboring a suspected terrorist is...misguided.
I'm very sorry to have offended you Xela.I didn't intend to.In fact, I think it's E who's a bit unfair and has a track record of ganging up on just about everyone who isn't Vic. |
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Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Good answer! |
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Anya
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:25 am Post subject: |
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So long as those extremist forces are still in Chechnya, who can tell whether they will stop as soon as RF grants Chechnya independence?
These terrorists are a revengful people. And independent Chechnya, without proper rule of law from a democratic, peace-loving government that looks after the welfare of civillians, will become nothing more than a spring-board and harbour for future terrorist activity that would be a threat to Russia and Europe.
There is no obvious answer for Chechnya's independence. At least not of now. The breakup of the USSR demonstrated what a crisis granting former Russian regions its own independence. The RF became like a man with lots of ex-wives with credit card still charged to his bank account.
As of now, the breakup has stopped, should it start again, it will trigger a domino effect of other neighbouring RF terriroty to fight for their own independence. We're talking about major civil war here. |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | So long as those extremist forces are still in Chechnya, who can tell whether they will stop as soon as RF grants Chechnya independence?
These terrorists are a revengful people. And independent Chechnya, without proper rule of law from a democratic, peace-loving government that looks after the welfare of civillians, will become nothing more than a spring-board and harbour for future terrorist activity that would be a threat to Russia and Europe. |
People thought that way about N. Ireland before the Good Friday Argeement, and look what happened afterwards. While the IRA is still more or less active, attacks on the mainland have trickeld to a halt.
As in most separtist movement, the terrorists are always usually a tiny minority of total separatist groups overall. The media tends to prefer to focus on the minority instead of the majority. For example the Basques.
And as was mentioned in the other thread, if one targeted the marginalization and anger that make the terrorists terrorists, then I don't think that that should be a problem.
| Quote: | | There is no obvious answer for Chechnya's independence. At least not of now. The breakup of the USSR demonstrated what a crisis granting former Russian regions its own independence. The RF became like a man with lots of ex-wives with credit card still charged to his bank account. |
I would say it went rather smoothly compared to the breakup of another communist federation/union, Yugoslavia. I'm not particulary familiar with any other region trying to separate other than Tatarstan, and they willingly chose to be a part of Russia. Unless someone cares to say otherwise?
| Quote: | | I'm very sorry to have offended you Xela.I didn't intend to.In fact, I think it's E who's a bit unfair and has a track record of ganging up on just about everyone who isn't Vic. |
Thats a bit unfair and dishonest to say --not to mention hypocritical as you are the same way to others who happen to disagree with you --say Vorteks for example. But i'm not going to go into here. We've got enough flames in this thread as it is. |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| You and Xela are on the same side on Chechnya and you were picking catfights with him. I consider myself a fair person, probably fairer than the majority here.I'm all for hearing an opposite viewpoint and all for a debate, as long as it's on a level of intelligence. |
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