Way to Russia Community and Forum

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:58 am Post subject:

It has been difficult for me to put into words my recent trip to St. Petersburg. Any WTR member who has been here for awhile probably knows that I have been a big lover of Russia for almost 10 years. I considered myself a devout Russophile. Meaning, I had a real fixation and interest in Russia, Russian culture etc.

My infatuation with Russia goes even deeper than adopting our son i n 1998 in Yekaterinburg. My paternal grandfather was from Russia and immigrated to US as an orphaned teen. All I can say is that I have a heart felt connection to Russia and its people. This will always be.

My recent 2nd trip to Russia however made me appreciate "westernized countries more than ever. I wish I felt otherwise because my experience n Piter and EVEN Estonia left me feeling a sense of loss. Russia is just a much darker and as far as tourists go- a much more defensive and yes not terribly hospitable country. It is very different than western European countries. But in any event, it is a good thing that westerners can visit. I suspect it will take time but things will greatlyimp\rove not only for tourists but residents.

Keoki · Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject:

I only spent one day in Helsinki but enjoyed the city very much. We did alot of walking, stopping in very nice parks. There were many street musicians and a jazz concert. People were quite relaxed enjoying themselves in the parks, pubs etc. We met some very friendly Finnish people and had a good time with them. The city has a nice open market. Yes the city is very clean and pretty. There is an amazing church in the center, quite an architectural gem in its own. Quality of life there is much higher than Piter. When I was on my trip, my sister was in Sweden. She and her family loved it. I can imagine visiting Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland in the future but I don't feel I want to return to Russia. Crying or Very sad

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

That description of Helsinki can apply to pretty much any western city. I saw a lot of musicians when I was in St Petersburg in June. There are lots of music, jazz and night clubs nowadays and the White Nights is when a lot of street fastivals are happening. There are several places in the center where there are lots of musicians, like Malaya Sadovaya. I don't know you could miss that. I met lots of my former friends and we hang out around the city. Most people are just as relaxed as anywhere and clubs and cafes are filled with young people having funa and enjoying themselves. Maybe you perceive them as not being relaxed. It's a wrong impression.

You still did not explain what was so "unfree" about St Petersburg and what was so "dark" about it. My impression of the city was very positive - I could not imagine that the city would change to the better so much. You cannot even imagine what the city was like 10 years ago.

I also had a chance to visit some more remote areas of the city. Some of them are quickly developing. There's an area called "Ozerki" that was pretty poor and neglected 10-12 years ago. Now there are constructing new tall residential buildings there and there are several huge supermarkets recently built there.

To me you cannot compare Helsinki with St Petersburg. Helsinki is clean but bland and non-descriptive and modern city. I spent 3 days there and I felt it was boring. But you have to realize that Finland is one of the richest countries in the world. You cannot compare that lifestyle and wealth with Russia's. I have an impression that you did not visit many interesting places in St Petersburg and those trips on Lada made a bad impression on you which clouded the whole experience.

Keoki · Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject:

cyndy22 · Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject:

Keoki,
I went to graduate school at the University of Hawaii, Manoa campus. I loved Hawaii and lived there for 3 years. Waikiki is not great but other parts of Oahu and especiially the other islands are gorgeous. Hawaii is the most beautiful place I have ever been. And it is very diverse culturally. It must have been major culture shock moving to Russia. How did you end up in Russia anyway?

Mr. Spice,
You make some good points but so called tourist places are places where most visitors go in major cities. And these tourist places charge high admission for non Russians. You might think I am a snob but I expect better service, not only in private sector but public too. One incident I will share is one day in Piter, I took one of the towels in our hotel room wityh me for the day, because it was quite warm. The next morning at 7:30 am I awoke to a telephone call from the hotel. They were upset about one stupid towel that I borrowed for the day. "There must be 6 towels in each room," I was reprimanded. That is one example of the lack of freedom and disrectful service, even if it is a silly story. At the Marrinsky theatre, Natasha was not able to sit with us because tourists must sit in the expensive tourist section and Russians sit elsewhere

I am sorry but my impression is quite different than yours. Yes many people are poor in St. Pete and most including non-poor, live in huge, ugly apartment buildings that remind me of those in the Bronx or any other low income housing project. While the bridges and buildings in the center are beautiful, much of the city is not. People are not very friendly, helpful, nor do they seem very happy. It was a big eye opener for me. On the other hand, my husband was not surprised at all, from our trip to Russia in 1998. It was even worse then.

Everyone sees and experiences things differenly. We all have unique situations that color our world.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

Cyndy: I must admit I did not go to any theaters. As far as your hotel is concerned - the last time I was in Cancun, Mexico and stayed at a nice resort, they charged $30 dollars if you don't return the towel to your room, no expcetion. And as I told you, you chose the wrong hotel. Russia is a developing country. Nowhere you feel it more than in the tourist industry. So, if you stay in the Soviet-style hotel, you will get a Soviet-style service. Think of those large old soviet hotels as a crappy Econo Lodge. I remember staying at Econo Lodge in Canada - they ran out of towels and shampoo. And over the course of my travels in Europe and the US I stayed in many terrible hotels where getting a call about a towel that I forgot to return would have been the least of my problems. So, let's distinguish your terrible hotel experience from the city of St Petersburg. Next time you can stay at a nice mini-hotel and you should be fine in this regard.

As far as old buildings that reminded you of Bronx: those areas are like the Bronx where people that are less poor live. And Brooklyn in places looks even worse than an average neighborhood in St Petersburg. There are also many areas in St Petersburg where they built beautiful new skyrises. This is the city of 5 million, it's huge. There are many parts of the city that are beautiful, not just the very center.

I heard that they charge different prices for foreigners and russians - but you had a russian guide. She could buy you "russian" tickets. In any case, this problem has been discussed extensivelly on this board. You should not have been surprised. In Italy, many museums are free for Italians and are extremely expensive for foreigners. So, it's not just Russia that has this problem.

As far as people being "happy" - I think this is a cultural thing. I lived one month in London. Londoners never seemed happy to me. In fact every morning I took a subway to work, almost everyone was reading a newspaper and all people look gloomy. But it's not because they are not happy. In America, in any small city, every smiles at you. It's not that people are happy to see - it's a cultural reflex to smile and say "how are you" You won't see that in most places in Europe. I can tell you that I personally know many people living in St Petersburg and I don't see any difference between people I see in New York every day and those Russians, really. Many russian immigrants here in the US often joke about Americans and their "fake smiles" and meaningless "how are yous" - that is an exagerration, of course. But it's a cultural difference. In the US, the person can be depressed and maybe without a job and yet he smiles like there's no tomorrow.

As far as liking different things - I am not saying you should like St Petersburg. It's all personal - but some of your arguments seem to have more to do with specific experiences you had misfortune of having in St Petersburg and some impressions of the city you got that seem incorrect or objective to me.

In any case, who cares about prices at the theater and towels at the hotel: forget about it for a minute. You came to see St Petersburg, not towels. Marrinsky comes to America all the time. You can see it here. You claimed that you were interested in Russian culture and country itself - St Petersburg is in many ways Russia at its best (even if Russia itself is not your cup of tea).

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

By the way, I, like most New Yorkers that live on middle-class income, live in an ugly apartment building in Brooklyn that is uglier than most in St Petersburg. In fact, I saw some new high-rises they are building in St Petersburg and was thinking - I wish they built something like this in Brooklyn in New York City. I would love to live there. Private house prices here approach 1 million mark now...

cyndy22 · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:15 am Post subject:

Mr. Spice,
I respect you and really do not want to get into a petty argument. I think however that you as most Russian immigrants are predisposed to Russian Culture. And rightfully so! Of Course everything is changing in this part of the world. Your perspective is perhaps things are evolving much faster. In my world it is defined by western standards.

Cancun is a joke. It is a man made tourist spot. I went to Yucatan in 1982 with my sister. We travelled independently. Cancun is and will probably always be a tourist haven that lacks any culture at all, let alone Mexican. When you get out of Cancun however, the Yucatan is very appealling. The capital, Merida is one of te most beautiful, colonial cities I hav visited. And the Yucatan peninsula outside 9f Cancun is splendid and cheap for tourists. Charging $30 for a towel is of course bull shit. But in a civilized nice place that supposedly respects tourists, don't ya think borrowing a hotel towel is not only a minor thing, but getting reprimended for it, especially when the hotel claims it is 3 stars and charges accordingly is maybe not criminal but none the less leaves SO MUCH ore to be desired.

Keoki · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:33 am Post subject:

raggedclaw · Frequent Guest Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 18

Try taking a few photos of an embassy, bridge, bank, power plant, etc., here in the good old USA. Especially, if you are or look like a "foreigner."
You'll wish you were only questioned when Bush's folks get through with you.

vettra · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:05 am Post subject:

Firebomb the Russian buildings with some old fashioned B-52s.
Our pilots need to stay in shape. Afterwards, there will be no building (or whatever the problem was that was making you a criminal), so it will be fully within the constitutional rights for you as a victim (/oops) person, stuck in Russia, to photograph whatever it is that you wanted to look at.

wwwadim · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:09 am Post subject:

I think it's a big mistake to judge country by some hotel services.
I think if you were staying at Balchug Kempinsky you wouldn't disappointed in Russia Smile

The face of country - is not a hotel or a tourist place.

I am suprised that you considered Russia as a common West-East European country. Russia is not a paradise.

I know that I live in a big abrupt country near other little "country" called as Moscow Smile

Russia <=> Moscow - other countries, other people, other income and mentality. But both of them are post-soviet territories - inherritors of USSR.
You should remember entering Russia that our country is isolate type country for tourists because of post-soviet "iron curtain", you know. Many residents of Russia are suspicious to the tourists because of their sovet mentality.
Old people (40-50+) are still afraid that they cold be interrogated by Militia, KGB or OBHSS after their talk with foreigners and put in prison.

Secondly, more than half of young russian people in russian province are sceptic minded to foreigners thinking that Russia is the greatest country in the world.

Plus you should know that Russia is a most corrupt countries in the world, we have the most percent of boorish people.

Russia is not a paradise - it is only original and interesting coutry (as the USA), where you have a chance to made your first billion dollars during first year of business, for example. Neutral

Jutrzenkapolska · VIP Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 534

Well, I was in Oahu for a week, not four years like you but in my experience, it was lovely. Great beaches, great food, great everything.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3431

cyndy: First of all, I like petty argument and will argue with you even if I don't what I am arguing about and why :)
Secondly, of course my judgement is clouded and influeneced by the fact that I was born in Russia and lived there for so many years, and have friends there... If I was born in Dallas, I would probably have never known what russia is and would not care.

My whole point is: the number of stars on a hotel does not mean anything, especially in Russia, but in other countries as well. I got terrible service at some expensive and highly-rated hotels and wonderful service at some inexpensive, cheap hotels. It all depends.

Russia is a developing country - that's how you should approach it. It's not Finland and not Sweden and never will be like those places. That's why people from the West are interested in Russia so much.

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