| Do you trust Putin? |
| Yes, definately |
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24% |
[ 9 ] |
| Somewhat |
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21% |
[ 8 ] |
| So, so |
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10% |
[ 4 ] |
| Somewhat not |
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16% |
[ 6 ] |
| No, definately not |
|
18% |
[ 7 ] |
| Don't know |
|
8% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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| Author |
Message |
Mogsfan
WayToRussified
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 490
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 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't Ukrainians consider that both candidates might be bad? I'm sure some do but it will be a problem for their country if not enough realize it. Imho, of course. |
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VictoR-Tdot
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:44 am Post subject: |
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noone has mentioned this so I guess I will.
Ukraine's top court ordered a revote. "The court ruled that the run off vote -- marred by widespread fraud, including voter intimidation and a turnout that reached 127% in one region -- should be held again under close international supervision." --The Globe and Mail
...so Putin..who called twice to congratulate Yanokovich...got told.
And Mark PLZ dont post your page long articles, which I never read after this...i want to be able to actually see what people are replying to this. |
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VictoR-Tdot
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Mogsfan wrote: | | Don't Ukrainians consider that both candidates might be bad? I'm sure some do but it will be a problem for their country if not enough realize it. Imho, of course. |
I think a South Park episode showed it best...don't remember what the episode was called but I think it was recent because it also made fun of Puff Daddy and his vote or die thing....(I'm not on the comp. that has that episode) but here is it's message in summary:
You always have to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich
I will post the exact quote later next week if anyone wants it...in between my exams  |
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Dan23
Frequent Guest
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 53
Location: Davis, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Mogsfan wrote: | | Don't Ukrainians consider that both candidates might be bad? I'm sure some do but it will be a problem for their country if not enough realize it. Imho, of course. |
My reaction to that, as an American and a member of the Green party, is that if there is any third party presence in Ukraine, it is probably almost irrelevant. In a less politically divisive climate, you might hear more about them.
And don't get me wrong - that's probably a good thing. In an election that represents a fight for the national identity with regard to how your (relatively small) country fits into the world, being sandwiched between two large powers, it is important to make your vote count. Here in America I voted for Kerry because the stakes were high. I can't even imagine what it must be like in Ukraine.
By the way, can anyone tell me why it's called The Ukraine?
Dan |
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Tiger-Beer
Just Starting
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Dr Fauste wrote: | Mark, You are an American and you love politics.
Most Russians I know hate talking about Politics.So if you happen to notice, Russians are not reponding to any comments about politics, it is just North Americans. |
I don't think Americans traditionally 'loved' politics. Its just a really weird strange time in our country right now. The U.S. is so overwhelmingly politically divided within itself. Its at a level that most of us have never seen in our lifetime. Some would say the 60s were a hot political time in the U.S., and its true.. but now in the last 3-4 years.. there feels to be this sudden and very strong emergence of media coming from the right that just didn't exist to this magnitude before.
Not only that.. but every non-American out there wants to discuss politics with a 'real' American.. that you can't even escape it when you go abroad - in fact, it goes more intense. |
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Vic
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 298
Location: Moscow, Russian Federation
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Hey everyone, I am sorry for the absence - I was in Omsk and I don't have a laptop so I didn't get much of a chance to type anything up. And extended apology goes out to Casey and Aggie.
Now, down to business:
I really cannot understand the American obsession with democracy! I am not even going to touch the fact that American democracy as you know it is goin down the drain, but take Georgia for instance - yeah, they have somewhat of a democracy, but nothing has changed at all. They ARE NOT doing good as you say, the only thing that has changed is that Americans are training their anti-terrorist units and that some people were replaced by others. Georgians are still living without jobs and electricity.
Ukraine is a bit different. The people did not vote for Yuschenko and for democracy, they voted against Yanukovich. The "blues" chose the worst possible candidate, if they would have chosen anyone else - victory was guaranteed. (Ukranians told me that Yankukovich was pretty much a thug - he could curse, he could beat your face in, but he couldnt do anything else. They told me that there were times when people would come out of his cabinet (when he was Prime Minister) with bloody noses and ect.)
Vic |
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Dan23
Frequent Guest
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 53
Location: Davis, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:36 am Post subject: |
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So what political system do you advocate?
Dan |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Hey everyone, I am sorry for the absence - I was in Omsk and I don't have a laptop so I didn't get much of a chance to type anything up. And extended apology goes out to Casey and Aggie |
Welcome back prodigal. How was Omsk? 
And i've read about Yanukovich's behavoir. A Ukrainian friend told me that during the debates, Yanukovich proved himself to be an illiterate, and uninformed thug and that Yuschenko ran circles around him in the same way Kerry ran circles around Bush during the debates.
Ukrainians saw this and made the right, rational choice. Now why couldn't Americans do the same thing?   |
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Camrade
VIP
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 516
Location: Санкт-Петербург
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Yanukovich proved himself to be an illiterate, and uninformed thug and that Yuschenko ran circles around him in the same way Kerry ran circles around Bush during the debates.
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that's not true... |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I did say, that is what a friend told me who was overwhelmingly pro-Yushenko.
What did happen then? |
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Vic
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 298
Location: Moscow, Russian Federation
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| e wrote: |
Welcome back prodigal. How was Omsk?
And i've read about Yanukovich's behavoir. A Ukrainian friend told me that during the debates, Yanukovich proved himself to be an illiterate, and uninformed thug and that Yuschenko ran circles around him in the same way Kerry ran circles around Bush during the debates.
Ukrainians saw this and made the right, rational choice. Now why couldn't Americans do the same thing? |
Hey! Thanks! Sorry for missing your letter in my post 
It was great - so was the trip there and the trip back - only one complaint: I did not realise that the bunks on Platskart in the train are shorter than the ones in Kupe, so I ended up with my feet out the window during the day (on the upper bunk)  The +32 weather was also nice...practically the whole time! I haven't even gone to the cottage and I am already as black as if I spent a month at the sea!
I don't know about the debate, I just know that he can fight and cuss, and thats about it. During his speeches he seemed allright, I don't know about the debate though. I just know that if they picked ANY other candidate, he would have won. Yushenko won because people voted AGAINST Yanukovich, not because they were for the ideals of Yankukovich or against the ideals of Yanukovich's party.
Vic |
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Jutrzenkapolska
VIP
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Welcome back! I'm leaving tomorrow morning myself but the dorm in Madrid has a Internet cafe, so we can stay in touch. |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Hey! Thanks! Sorry for missing your letter in my post Wink
It was great - so was the trip there and the trip back - only one complaint: I did not realise that the bunks on Platskart in the train are shorter than the ones in Kupe, so I ended up with my feet out the window during the day (on the upper bunk) Razz The +32 weather was also nice...practically the whole time! I haven't even gone to the cottage and I am already as black as if I spent a month at the sea! |
Sounds nice. Are you going anywhere else this summer? To Abhkazia?
| Quote: | | I don't know about the debate, I just know that he can fight and cuss, and thats about it. During his speeches he seemed allright, I don't know about the debate though. I just know that if they picked ANY other candidate, he would have won. Yushenko won because people voted AGAINST Yanukovich, not because they were for the ideals of Yankukovich or against the ideals of Yanukovich's party. |
So you think that Western Ukraine's pro-West/EU leanings had nothing to do with it? |
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Rick
Moderator
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 854
Location: Касабланка
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Vic wrote: |
I really cannot understand the American obsession with democracy! I am not even going to touch the fact that American democracy as you know it is goin down the drain, but take Georgia for instance - yeah, they have somewhat of a democracy, but nothing has changed at all. They ARE NOT doing good as you say, the only thing that has changed is that Americans are training their anti-terrorist units and that some people were replaced by others. Georgians are still living without jobs and electricity. |
I think you're getting to some point there. Politics are often not a big issue in places where every day is mostly about working hard just for survival. Unless the political situation is somehow threatening to survival. (Cases of repression etc.) People have no time or energy to invest in it otherwise.
We are in a luxury position, being able to discuss politics from our lazy chairs. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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INdeed, welcome back, Vic! I'll hopefully catch you online before I leave, but I'm still on track to arrive in Moscow 20-21 August.
I think Yushchenko's biggest problem is going to be Julia Timoshenko! She is, in my opinion, completely out of control. She relishes in insulting and causing problems with Russia and she poses a direct threat to Yushchenko. But the Orange platform had no agenda - it was simply "we're not Yanukovich" as mentioned before. But I think Yushch is a capable politician and a genuinely decent guy. He'll work out the kinks in Ukraine, but he needs to unburden himself of Timoshenko first. She's going to derail his administration otherwise and end up alienating Ukraine from both Russia and the West! |
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